Calling all consciousness deniers

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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gaffo
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Re: Calling all consciousness deniers

Post by gaffo » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:52 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:04 pm
gaffo wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:15 am
solipsism.
...is just another Concept...it's an Idea.
not from my perspective - its more than in idea.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:04 pm
No concept/idea has ever been seen to exist, only known.

Here there is nothing to prove or disprove the knower of all concepts, for the knower is not a concept.

.
logic and empircism affirms my solipsism.

why am i talking to myself? - again...............

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Dontaskme
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Re: Calling all consciousness deniers

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:57 am

gaffo wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:52 am

logic and empircism affirms my solipsism.

why am i talking to myself? - again...............
The fact that I am talking, and you are responding is confirmation that you exist..there is no you without me, there is no me without you.

Communication of information is dual by nature, from self to self an eternal spring.

Solipsism never denied the external world, what is looking at the world is not in the world, the world in the looker.

.

gaffo
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Re: Calling all consciousness deniers

Post by gaffo » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:24 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:57 am
gaffo wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:52 am

logic and empircism affirms my solipsism.

why am i talking to myself? - again...............
Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:57 am
The fact that I am talking, and you are responding is confirmation that you exist..there is no you without me, there is no me without you.

you are probably talking you yourself - for practical purposes you are. only via your senses there is a "me" per you.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:57 am
Solipsism never denied the external world, what is looking at the world is not in the world, the world in the looker.

.
sure, i might exist, but to assume i do is an act of faith not empiricism


i never denied the existence of the external world - only claim it is an act of faith to assume it IS (empiricism is all i know).

i have no faith myself.

you may exist or you may not - both are equally valid per empiricism.

Dalek Prime
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Location: Living in a tree with Polly.

Re: Calling all consciousness deniers

Post by Dalek Prime » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:52 pm

PauloL wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:29 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:07 pm

I am copying my reply from the Dualism II post here because it applies:

Consciousness will never be explained or even studied by Science as long as Scientists proclaim that there is no such thing as Consciousness or that it is just an Illusion. What can you do when people say there is no Hard Problem or Explanatory Gap and it is all already solved Scientifically? They say its all in the Neurons. They don't understand the Hard Problem of Consciousness that leads to the Explanatory Gap.

I think that Science will develop new Concepts that are not known yet. These Concepts will describe Consciousness in a Scientific way. It will be a new branch of Science. But first Science must acknowledge the existence of a separate Consciousness concept that is Not Explained yet and that can be studied. The very fact that Consciousness exists in the Universe means that we must explain it. It is basic human Scientific curiosity that will drive it. It might take thinking in new Scientific ways.
I'd like to add my answer in Dualism II, inspired by these comments by Steve:

In fact scientism boycotted any further investigation on the mind by deriding its study as associated to spiritism, for instance, something scientifically unsound, but curbing anyone interested in studying honestly the mind as an entity.

To substantiate this boycott, just look at this quote from a book in Neurosciences:

"Progress in addressing the mind-body problem has come from focusing on empirically accessible questions rather than on eristic philosophical arguments with no clear resolution."

There's no dispute between any scientific areas, Philosophy included, so why do people think that they may feel in the right to call whatever they like to other legitimate scientific areas, to the point of disparaging and vilifying them? Isn't this devious behavior eristic on its own?
There is a hierarchy of sciences in their minds, ranging from complex, mixed sciences, to basic physical ones which allow for the mixed to be studied. Many hard science disciples feel that the further you get from math and physics, the further you get from the facts. Of course, this is not so. They just don't understand the mix, and the fact that one is still using the same methodology.

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