The Inter Mind

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Dontaskme »

SteveKlinko wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:30 pm Maybe the Oneness you talk about is true and so there is no Gap for you. But I am talking about what Science knows and doesn't know right now. Science more and more is figuring out how the Brain works. Science claims to have solved what Consciousness is by saying that it is just an Illusion of Neural Activity. Literally, that is what they say. The Gap that I am talking about is a Gap of Scientific understanding.
I get what you mean. But science will have to do what the mystics do and come to the same conclusion that the conscious experience is a mystery even to itself.

That's the only understanding that's going to show up.. in my logic.

Solving the mystery would be like electricity knowing it is electricity.

Concepts cannot communicate to other Concepts. All we got it concepts and images. Both empty of substance.

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Oneness is unsolvable...because of the where does the consciousness go upon death problem...the body is still visible, but the consciousness has disappeared.

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Maybe the consciousness hasn't gone anywhere, maybe it's just invisible like space...maybe it needs a generator and that generator is the brain network which is responsible for the charge that makes the inanimate animate.

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Consciousness never losing it's capacity to be charged since it's constantly feeding each new life form into animation , it's inseparable from the material and the material is constantly plugged into it's source of consciousness...we know this because reality is unbroken ..we do not witness any gaps in the way the world presents itself to us. It's one whole picture in our view finder, there's no fragments anywhere ..in that there is no place where one thing begins and another thing ends.

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SteveKlinko
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:42 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:30 pm Maybe the Oneness you talk about is true and so there is no Gap for you. But I am talking about what Science knows and doesn't know right now. Science more and more is figuring out how the Brain works. Science claims to have solved what Consciousness is by saying that it is just an Illusion of Neural Activity. Literally, that is what they say. The Gap that I am talking about is a Gap of Scientific understanding.
I get what you mean. But science will have to do what the mystics do and come to the same conclusion that the conscious experience is a mystery even to itself.

That's the only understanding that's going to show up.. in my logic.

Solving the mystery would be like electricity knowing it is electricity.

Concepts cannot communicate to other Concepts. All we got it concepts and images. Both empty of substance.

.

Oneness is unsolvable...because of the where does the consciousness go upon death problem...the body is still visible, but the consciousness has disappeared.

.

Maybe the consciousness hasn't gone anywhere, maybe it's just invisible like space...maybe it needs a generator and that generator is the brain network which is responsible for the charge that makes the inanimate animate.

.

Consciousness never losing it's capacity to be charged since it's constantly feeding each new life form into animation , it's inseparable from the material and the material is constantly plugged into it's source of consciousness...we know this because reality is unbroken ..we do not witness any gaps in the way the world presents itself to us. It's one whole picture in our view finder, there's no fragments anywhere ..in that there is no place where one thing begins and another thing ends.

.
All Mysteries must be solved, and I think that all Mysteries will be solved some day. We should never stop trying.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The Inter Mind

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SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:53 pmAll Mysteries must be solved, and I think that all Mysteries will be solved some day. We should never stop trying.
One way to solve the mystery would be to replicate the conscious self...I can't think of any other way...we can replicate our self by making conscious robots. Then we'd have two species of self, one organic conscious self, and the other a mechanical conscious self made of the elements already provided by nature. We could then interact with each other and maybe make mechanical organic babies in the process and end up with a completely alien mishmash of a whole new species...(just kidding! :wink: :D )

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SteveKlinko
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Re: The Inter Mind

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Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:21 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:53 pmAll Mysteries must be solved, and I think that all Mysteries will be solved some day. We should never stop trying.
One way to solve the mystery would be to replicate the conscious self...I can't think of any other way...we can replicate our self by making conscious robots. Then we'd have two species of self, one organic conscious self, and the other a mechanical conscious self made of the elements already provided by nature. We could then interact with each other and maybe make mechanical organic babies in the process and end up with a completely alien mishmash of a whole new species...(just kidding! :wink: :D )

.
I think what you are kidding around with here is actually a possibility. I can completely envision Conscious Machines someday.
SteveKlinko
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Re: The Inter Mind

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The Inter Mind Website has been significantly upgraded to include better introductory sections. The "Levels of Understanding for the Human Visual Experience" section is especially important for launching Minds on the correct trajectory for the for the remainder of the writings. See http://TheInterMind.com
Dimebag
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Dimebag »

SteveKlinko wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:42 pm The Inter Mind Website has been significantly upgraded to include better introductory sections. The "Levels of Understanding for the Human Visual Experience" section is especially important for launching Minds on the correct trajectory for the for the remainder of the writings. See http://TheInterMind.com
I enjoyed that section which is essentially our own understanding of what our experience is, specifically levels 1 to 3. Yet when you get to level 4, as you mention, there seems to be some mismatch between what is known about the conscious experience, that it is generated entirely inside us, and the knowledge of the external, that the brain and it’s neurons are responsible for this internal conscious world.

So, we have two understandings, one of the internal knowing itself. The other, of the external, and an attempt to correspond that external understanding of the brain and it’s functioning to the internal conscious experience.

The conscious experience is the functioning of the brain. The internal knowing of the experience is direct, there is no interpretation required, it is known by virtue of it simply existing. Yet, our external knowledge of how that internal direct experiencing corresponds to the outer workings of the brain is severely limited.

Imagine if we could make a model of the brain which essentially amounted to a functional explanation of the brain, from a NCC perspective, would this ever explain why the inner experience was like it was? I don’t think so, but it should explain the structure of that internal experience on a 1 to 1 correspondence of inner subjectivity to outer brain functioning.

It would explain the what, but not the why.

So, is the why question even answerable? I’m not so sure, at least not yet. The brain based understanding of consciousness seems to not contain the right “building blocks” or conceptual structures which could in theory, explain conscious experiences.

Is consciousness even like this? Made of composite parts? I don’t know. Redness just seems like a single thing. Yet, we know it is intimately linked to a visual system, it doesn’t stand alone from the system of the eye, retina, perception, and even light. Yet, we know it can in some way, stand alone, in dreams, and in this case, the perceptual system alone is responsible, but likely in tandem with memory, conceptual structures, pattern recognition structures of the brain. Even dreams aren’t as simple and localised a phenomena as we might think. Yet, we still want to think about the brain as essentially a black box, because we don’t want to put in the effort to understand it as a system. That is likely where any possible further explanation will lie, not as some finer grained description of action potentials, or neurotransmitters, but, these details might inform the systems level understanding.
SteveKlinko
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko »

Dimebag wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:13 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:42 pm The Inter Mind Website has been significantly upgraded to include better introductory sections. The "Levels of Understanding for the Human Visual Experience" section is especially important for launching Minds on the correct trajectory for the for the remainder of the writings. See http://TheInterMind.com
I enjoyed that section which is essentially our own understanding of what our experience is, specifically levels 1 to 3. Yet when you get to level 4, as you mention, there seems to be some mismatch between what is known about the conscious experience, that it is generated entirely inside us, and the knowledge of the external, that the brain and it’s neurons are responsible for this internal conscious world.

So, we have two understandings, one of the internal knowing itself. The other, of the external, and an attempt to correspond that external understanding of the brain and it’s functioning to the internal conscious experience.

The conscious experience is the functioning of the brain. The internal knowing of the experience is direct, there is no interpretation required, it is known by virtue of it simply existing. Yet, our external knowledge of how that internal direct experiencing corresponds to the outer workings of the brain is severely limited.

Imagine if we could make a model of the brain which essentially amounted to a functional explanation of the brain, from a NCC perspective, would this ever explain why the inner experience was like it was? I don’t think so, but it should explain the structure of that internal experience on a 1 to 1 correspondence of inner subjectivity to outer brain functioning.

It would explain the what, but not the why.

So, is the why question even answerable? I’m not so sure, at least not yet. The brain based understanding of consciousness seems to not contain the right “building blocks” or conceptual structures which could in theory, explain conscious experiences.

Is consciousness even like this? Made of composite parts? I don’t know. Redness just seems like a single thing. Yet, we know it is intimately linked to a visual system, it doesn’t stand alone from the system of the eye, retina, perception, and even light. Yet, we know it can in some way, stand alone, in dreams, and in this case, the perceptual system alone is responsible, but likely in tandem with memory, conceptual structures, pattern recognition structures of the brain. Even dreams aren’t as simple and localised a phenomena as we might think. Yet, we still want to think about the brain as essentially a black box, because we don’t want to put in the effort to understand it as a system. That is likely where any possible further explanation will lie, not as some finer grained description of action potentials, or neurotransmitters, but, these details might inform the systems level understanding.
Thank You for reading. I think it's more the How, rather than the What or the Why, that I am looking for.
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