Consciousness vs Interpretation of Consciousness

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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marsh8472
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Consciousness vs Interpretation of Consciousness

Post by marsh8472 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:00 am

If our consciousness can be reduced to information processing in the brain, would that same processing simulated on a computer be considered equally conscious? (assume yes for this discussion)

Computers compute by manipulating data which we can then interpret as computed. An example of what I mean is a Turing Machine made out of legos can make computations by shifting a row of legos back and forth to represent 1's and 0's which looks like this:

Image

In this example the lego positions represent the memory. We can see the computer works as an example by feeding it 20 and 15, tell it to add them, and receiving a result of 35 as translated. But a person who knows nothing of how the positions of the legos translates into numbers will not see this as a computing device but rather just some lego machine flipping legos around. Is this still considered an adding machine even if someone does not see it as such? (can discuss this part)

If we simulated the processes of a human brain on a machine like this, even if no one perceives the computing device as a computing device won't it feel like a conscious to the concscious entity being simulated? Afterall aren't we still conscious regardless of whether someone else perceives us as conscious? (can discuss this part too)

Assuming the answers to these previous questions have been yes so far, couldn't any arbitrary data anywhere in the universe be interpreted as information that maps to our brain states. Just like I can take letters from this post and re-arrange the letters to show a completely different message. Doesn't that different message exist even if we don't know the mapping of how to re-arrange these letters to form the different message? Regardless of our inability to perceive the information, from the conscious being's perspective they should still feel conscious shouldn't they? Or is it required that a mind exist to interpret the data as the information in order for the consciousness to exist? If that's the case, does that mean we have to be conscious for the same reason?

Impenitent
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Re: Consciousness vs Interpretation of Consciousness

Post by Impenitent » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:27 am

the egocentric predicament applies to humans with egos...

to extend human ego to non humans is an example of an anthropomorphic error...

-Imp

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Arising_uk
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Re: Consciousness vs Interpretation of Consciousness

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:24 am

marsh8472 wrote:...

In this example the lego positions represent the memory. We can see the computer works as an example by feeding it 20 and 15, tell it to add them, and receiving a result of 35 as translated. But a person who knows nothing of how the positions of the legos translates into numbers will not see this as a computing device but rather just some lego machine flipping legos around. Is this still considered an adding machine even if someone does not see it as such? (can discuss this part) ...
Yes because that is what it was built to be I'd say.
If we simulated the processes of a human brain on a machine like this, even if no one perceives the computing device as a computing device won't it feel like a conscious to the concscious entity being simulated? Afterall aren't we still conscious regardless of whether someone else perceives us as conscious? (can discuss this part too)
I'd say no because we aren't just a 'brain' but a CNS, a PNS, an Endocrine system and a Skeletal-Muscular system(there's probably another in there somewhere) which makes us a Body with senses in an external world. Now if you can run a 'sim' or 'em' of all this then maybe I'd say yes.
Assuming the answers to these previous questions have been yes so far, couldn't any arbitrary data anywhere in the universe be interpreted as information that maps to our brain states. ...
No, as for me it would have to be 'arbitrary data' that can be mapped to our senses and there could be stuff that can't.
Just like I can take letters from this post and re-arrange the letters to show a completely different message. Doesn't that different message exist even if we don't know the mapping of how to re-arrange these letters to form the different message? ...
But we always know the mapping? It'll be the rules of the English language.
Regardless of our inability to perceive the information, from the conscious being's perspective they should still feel conscious shouldn't they? Or is it required that a mind exist to interpret the data as the information in order for the consciousness to exist? If that's the case, does that mean we have to be conscious for the same reason?
Not quite sure what you're saying here?

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attofishpi
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Re: Consciousness vs Interpretation of Consciousness

Post by attofishpi » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:00 am

marsh8472 wrote:If our consciousness can be reduced to information processing in the brain, would that same processing simulated on a computer be considered equally conscious? (assume yes for this discussion)

Computers compute by manipulating data which we can then interpret as computed. An example of what I mean is a Turing Machine made out of legos can make computations by shifting a row of legos back and forth to represent 1's and 0's which looks like this:

Image
I tried to assume 'yes' for your posit, but no is the only reply i can give.

I always use this example, and rather than considering the positions of lego in a binary set, lets consider a robot with silicon to make up the binary set. Even virtue of the fact that this robot happens to have the processing power to pass the Turing test, it is NOT conscious.

The robot puts out its hand onto a table. A monkey puts out its hand onto a table.

I strike each hand with a hammer. Which of the two are going to actually feel pain?

All the robot does is 'sense' not even sense - measure - pressure via some hardware - and it might retract its hand if the pressure received is > 10.

The monkey on the other hand (apology - no pun intended) is in a lot of pain (a true sense - has occurred which is one of the conditions of something that is conscious.

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Greta
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Re: Consciousness vs Interpretation of Consciousness

Post by Greta » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:24 am

marsh8472 wrote:If we simulated the processes of a human brain on a machine like this, even if no one perceives the computing device as a computing device won't it feel like a conscious to the concscious entity being simulated? After all aren't we still conscious regardless of whether someone else perceives us as conscious? (can discuss this part too)
Then again, our brain is processing plenty of information while our consciousness (as we recognise it) is absent in deep sleep. It's not just the amount of processing but the type.

Impenitent
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Re: Consciousness vs Interpretation of Consciousness

Post by Impenitent » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:54 pm


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