Who's minding the store?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:13 am

Beauty wrote:
All said and done, I know it's a bit late to ask you that, but what exactly do you mean by, 'who's minding the store?' Do you mean to ask who is our original face?
Yes that's what I mean by who's minding the store, I mean who or what is our original face?... The point is, there is no face to this, all faces are mere reflections of the faceless one, it's all a mystery even to itself, we can only know what we think we are as a reflected image. But reflected images have no reality, only that which is reflecting has reality, this cannot be known by any thing it reflects, because this is already being itself every moment one without a second. The witness, aka self reflector, experiencer of every experience is called that, because it is KNOWN ..but only in relation to the witnessed.. So here you can see the dilemma, in that reality is always first and foremost a verb, and can never get a peek up it's own skirt, it would be like trying to lift oneself up by the bootstraps.

Beauty... as fragments of the whole, we each are endowed with the God of our own unique understanding, because we are the whole and have never actually left the whole, in the holographic theory, each fragment of the whole is still the whole. If you tear a hologram in half, you can still see the whole image in each piece. The same is true with smaller and smaller pieces. Wholeness is totally non-divisive. I know you know this already, but I'm just using the analogy as a pointer to point to what we always are which is this self shinning one without a second.

The following video explains it all in a nutshell, how there is no separate entity anywhere to be found in existence. It's all one seamless whole interacting with itself.

My understanding of this one seamless ALIVENESS streaming live ..can be explained very clearly in the entire contents of the video I've posted below. Everything described in that video is exactly how I see or understand reality to be as well.


Nothing Comes From Nothing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jAP0oCcOKA

There's simply nothing that anyone else could say differently other than what's said in this video that could sway me from the God of my own understanding, because to speak of this is never it, to speak or write about it is all a fictional story arising in it and never it. We all have our stories of what we imagine it to be, and each story is the same one telling the story in a different way that's all.

We're all sharing our knowledge of reality from our own unique understanding, that's all we're doing, we're just all leading each other home to source...to the end of suffering as a mistakenly assumed separate entity.

Beauty
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Beauty » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:49 am

Well first, I took it by 'who's minding the store?' that, who is looking after us?
The answer is God looks after us, God is the one minding the store. God is us - Our Higher Consciousness, guiding us in the right way always.

I think, the Creator is something like simultaneously opposites being there, but we are not that, we are either tall, medium or short; big, medium or small; dark, fair, or medium; we go right or left or straight, or back, front or side; it is cold, hot or pleasant; nothing, something or done; presence, absence or for a short while etc.
In the dictionary we have all words - opposite too. The Creator is simultaneously everything - there and not there. And so we cannot understand the mystery of our being, our creation, for question and answer are sitting together only at the origin - origination of the word. So at the origin of things, no mystery would be there. Mystery is only regarding our case, in our world, for we are either this or that, not simultaneously everything, otherwise we would have all answers, we would know everything. Word is God. Or "God is a word."

If we are pieces of some jigsaw puzzle, of course we cannot understand the picture put together, but the one putting together can see it and understand it. Also, this one understanding, being a part of something itself will not be able to understand itself either. So maybe no one understands the mystery of creation or formation if it is.

I just want to say that, if question is there, it is because the answer is there first, or how did the question arise, I mean to say on what basis, so is the basis not there, it is? Problem is there because the solution was already there but neglect or mistake happened and so problem arose. All said and done, at the origin would be tranquility - no problems at all, only answers existing - Peace.

So then what am I saying? I am saying this - that answers to everything are there, but we just don't have access or knowledge enough, or in other words, it's all good. No problems, it's okay. No worries. How are you? I'm good! Do you ever say I'm bad? No, and it's because fact/truth is that we are all good. So nothing ever to worry about, except our own actions, so they must be no vices and no wickedness and no mistakes because vices and wickedness and mistakes bring pain and suffering, and no one likes pain and suffering. Wickedness means enormous pain and suffering, wickedness is sin. Therefore scripture says, "Do not sin."

So then with no vices, nor wickedness, nor mistakes we are all good. We become the ones minding the store ourselves - Gods. This does not mean we become the Creator, but we can live "The Good life" of God, we have all choices, we can even choose to not be in existence, or to return to life again and again, I'm talking about the life of God in Heaven, not the life here as we have in Hell which has pain & suffering.

Beauty
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Beauty » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:59 am

Also, maybe we say Creator because that created or made creatures - animal life(human life understood), and caricatures - things. So then Creator would be above things and life. Now that we simply cannot understand, as to what could be above things and life, the reason being that our world is only things and life, so we only understand that. So then there is a law somewhere in this Cosmos, one that we simply do not understand, but that is the answer to all our questions, and would also answer the question of the Creator coming up and how and why and all that.

So then, does it mean that we should be satisfied with not knowing everything? No, it does not mean that, but I think it does mean that if we don't know everything regarding our life and our world, then there would be a reason for that happening. Now, when we don't know something that we would like to know, why is that? It's only because we are deserving to not know. For example: Spouse is cheating, we feel it, and would like to know the truth, but fate is dictating that we not know, and fate would be due to us walking the wrong way in life in the past(This is besides the point that the spouse cheating is actually currently wicked but perhaps us not anymore). So then, if we begin to live in truth - all truth - no lies, cheating, deceit, malpractice nor scam, then we can perhaps know all that we want to know.

Maybe, the more truth we live in, the more truth will come our way.

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:08 am

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Last edited by Dontaskme on Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:53 am

Also Beauty the thing about opposites is that they exist in the same moment as you so rightly pointed out, so there is never any contradiction where real truth is involved. A lie can only be revealed by the truth, a lie cannot reveal the truth. A lie may veil the truth, but can NEVER extinguish it.

Every human being mature enough to hold a point of view is not only bound to hold a point of view but also bound to defend his point of view when meeting a different point of view. The difference may be settled maturely or not – agreement to differ or to modify the point or angry riposte. The more sophisticated the knowledge upholding the contrary points of view, the more entrenched the argument. Disharmony is the outcome, and we have come to accept this. The revelation that opposites exist together and not separately resolves man’s dilemma. The gift of wisdom.

Thinking evolved in man as a tool for problem solving, when man became identified with himself, for man was the only species to become self aware to the point of thinking he existed separately from the whole of nature, therefore thinking evolved, it became his tool as a way of surviving death. Because man identified with thought, he then became aware of himself and knew birth, and in order to know birth he also had to know the opposite which is death, and man feared this death. Blinded by ignorance of his real identity he failed to awaken / recognise/ realise the truth. Which was that he had never been born so could not die, and that the one whom he only thought he was had in fact been secretly CARRIED through life effortlessly and gracefully...and that he was just the faculty or vehicle used by oneness aka life to express itself as and through that body.

Oneness being of no specific gender of course ... Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one.

Which one seems unnatural now? :wink:

Beauty
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Beauty » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:16 pm

Dontaskme wrote:Also Beauty the thing about opposites is that they exist in the same moment as you so rightly pointed out,
I never exactly said that actually, what I meant was that the Creator being everything, would be simultaneously there and not there, which means that if it isn't that way, then how is this life and world there? On what basis? Because what would be the reference to? Not there? Then if initially this life and world was not there and then came to be, then from where did it come to be and how? Nothing? But that is nothing, so +ve and -ve charged particles coming up would be the case, and their various combinations is how this life and world has come to be. But how and why would the charges come up when nothing was there? What would be the basis for that? So, I said that the Creator would have to be simultaneously everything, and so there and not there, and then we don't wonder about the origin and how everything came up. Also, if nothing was there, and then creator, creation comes up, then who or what is nothing? That is why I said, the Creator is simultaneously everything - there and not there, Creator is nothing and something simultaneously. By this I do not mean that nothing and something is the same thing, for they are opposites. Also, it may be possible that this whole world and life came from dark and light. Light we all know, but dark we don't really.

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:53 pm

Beauty wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:Also Beauty the thing about opposites is that they exist in the same moment as you so rightly pointed out,
I never exactly said that actually, what I meant was that the Creator being everything, would be simultaneously there and not there, which means that if it isn't that way, then how is this life and world there? On what basis? Because what would be the reference to? Not there? Then if initially this life and world was not there and then came to be, then from where did it come to be and how? Nothing?
Well to be honest with you, what you actually meant to say is the same as what I've been saying all along, which is opposites are there in the same moment. I just happened to say 'moment' while you say 'simultaneously'...now in my logic that's the same thing said differently that's all, what's the big deal??

And since opposites are in everyday life, it only means that the quantum nature of meanings is a word with it's opposite in the same moment. This implies that the meaning which you do not want is also present in the meaning that you do want. No need for semantics over this ..but as they say what-ever floats your boat. It's almost like you crave the higher ground in proving your point is better. I've already agreed with your point, you don't have to keep proving your point with the upper hand approach as if I'm not understanding you, I do get what you are saying, you are saying there is no such thing as nothingness, and I agree. But what you've done is you've misinterpreted my endless plug for ''no thing'' for nothingness which is not the same, and is not what's being talked about here... But what-ever.


Beauty wrote: But that is nothing, so +ve and -ve charged particles coming up would be the case, and their various combinations is how this life and world has come to be. But how and why would the charges come up when nothing was there? What would be the basis for that? So, I said that the Creator would have to be simultaneously everything, and so there and not there, and then we don't wonder about the origin and how everything came up. Also, if nothing was there, and then creator, creation comes up, then who or what is nothing? That is why I said, the Creator is simultaneously everything - there and not there, Creator is nothing and something simultaneously. By this I do not mean that nothing and something is the same thing, for they are opposites. Also, it may be possible that this whole world and life came from dark and light. Light we all know, but dark we don't really.
Okay I get it...I think we've been over this millions of times already.

Beauty
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Beauty » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:46 am

Dontaskme wrote: you are saying there is no such thing as nothingness,
I never said that that there is no such thing as nothing, so don't say that. Pen here today gone tomorrow means that pen is nothing anymore yet there in the elements of the environment from which it was made. I have said earlier that nothing is a concept built into the something, and so we all things and life in this world, come and go, but only to the elements of the environment. So in effect we or things are not there, but the elements from which things and us are made are there.

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:36 am

Beauty wrote:
Dontaskme wrote: you are saying there is no such thing as nothingness,
I never said that that there is no such thing as nothing, so don't say that. Pen here today gone tomorrow means that pen is nothing anymore yet there in the elements of the environment from which it was made. I have said earlier that nothing is a concept built into the something, and so we all things and life in this world, come and go, but only to the elements of the environment. So in effect we or things are not there, but the elements from which things and us are made are there.
Well thanks for clearing up the confusion. I agree. I see you okay!

Can we both agree to meet at the heart level now?

Beauty
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Beauty » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:37 am

Dontaskme wrote: Can we both agree to meet at the heart level now?
I don't know what you mean by your above line, can we please keep everything to the point and not start talking in parables here? As for who's minding the store? By that you mean to say who is the original face, in the sense of who is at our origin or the origination of things/life, is it not pretty obvious that the Creator/God would be? Now you can choose to say that is "faceless" or something else, how does it matter? The question has been answered, hasn't it been?

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:07 pm

Beauty wrote:

I don't know what you mean by your above line, can we please keep everything to the point and not start talking in parables here? As for who's minding the store? By that you mean to say who is the original face, in the sense of who is at our origin or the origination of things/life, is it not pretty obvious that the Creator/God would be? Now you can choose to say that is "faceless" or something else, how does it matter? The question has been answered, hasn't it been?
I've changed my mind about my assumption that you and I were meeting at the heart, well surprise surprise, looks like we don't meet anywhere at all after reading your latest response. Strange how You talk about Oneness God and Beauty - but have no idea what it means when two people meet at the heart level. I thought we'd reached an understanding at the heart level, but I was wrong. Your a confusing character, so I'm just going to continue pointing you to what is not.

The question of who cannot be answered because there is no who. But who ever it is, is not what thought thinks it is because thoughts are empty and so are concepts.

Beauty
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Beauty » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:38 pm

Dontaskme wrote: I've changed my mind about my assumption that you and I were meeting at the heart, well surprise surprise, looks like we don't meet anywhere at all after reading your latest response. Strange how You talk about Oneness God and Beauty - but have no idea what it means when two people meet at the heart level. I thought we'd reached an understanding at the heart level, but I was wrong. Your a confusing character, so I'm just going to continue pointing you to what is not.

The question of who cannot be answered because there is no who. But who ever it is, is not what thought thinks it is because thoughts are empty and so are concepts.
Really? So I have enlightened you so much, that now you've gotten smart to the point that you are saying that I am a confusing character and that you will point me to what is not confusing? This honestly takes the cup-cake! My God! Anyways.

How do you know the question of who cannot be answered, for that thinking also you did using thoughts, and thoughts we don't know what they are, or there might or would be something bigger than thoughts and so forth because thoughts come from somewhere in the mind. Point is, anything you argue, why you arguing, what is the point, when you don't know anything.

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:20 pm

Beauty wrote:
How do you know the question of who cannot be answered, for that thinking also you did using thoughts, and thoughts we don't know what they are, or there might or would be something bigger than thoughts and so forth because thoughts come from somewhere in the mind.
But it's not mans mind to know that. Mind is a thought, a thought is not something somewhere in the mind,..a thought is the mind.
Nothing about reality can be answered by man, man is already known - who the knower is ..is the only one question to all our answers. No one knows.

Life does not have answers to life's questions, it doesn't need to, it functions perfectly on it's own without ever questioning why or how. It doesn't need to ask itself questions of who or why or what knows life? how could it? it's only the thought 'I exist as a man' that want's to know anything. A man being nothing but the thought itself, not an actual ''man'' that's separate from what it want's to know... that's like thought wanting to know what thought is...do you not see the dilemma here?

Any answer would be nothing but pure conjecture, speculation, or imagination on mans part, since man is just a conceptual known thing, but not a something that knows itself, but the integral silent knowing itself, one with the knowing. Aka the self -less knowing.

Man cannot be certain that God created the world, as he was not present during the creation. How can he be certain that God created the world and himself, when he is not certain of his own life or anyone else’s for that matter? He merely believes that God created the world and everything else, including himself. It must be understood that if God created or manifested the world and everything in it, including man, He must be present within everything in the world, including man, to keep them all alive. So, the statement God is everywhere holds ground.

If God keeps the world and everything in it including man alive, it must be because of God that the sophisticated world, including the sophistication and the drama of life, is happening, in accordance with His will and plan. Man’s mind too must be a manifestation of God, and man definitely could not have manifested it. He could not have manifested the mind because that would require a mind, which man did not have to begin with, as prehistoric man. The mind came into being in the process of the sophistication of life. If man had manifested the mind, he would be certain about life, while it is every man’s knowledge that he is not.
Beauty wrote: Point is, anything you argue, why you arguing, what is the point, when you don't know anything.
You are the argumentative here, that has become plainly obvious, I was just pointing that flaw in you. You seemed to be in a constant state of confusion when it comes to talking about the God Concept.

Yeah your right, Dontaskme, don't know anything, fortunately I don't need to know anything, for I am already known, only that I know, I'm known but not by I the known, for the known can't known anything, except what is false, to know the real, that would imply two knowers. I doubt whether you can understand that from your limited understanding of what God actually means, you continue to display a lack of clarity on the subject.

The beliefs man has about God forces him to defend them, but why should beliefs in God be defended if they were the truth? If beliefs were the truth, it would not require anyone to defend them- they would stand by themselves as the truth. The fact that beliefs have to be defended, along with man's anger when he is provoked, proves that he is not sure of his beliefs.

From belief to clarity. Drop the belief because whatever is identifiable or man thinks he knows, can never be God. The known has to be illusory and not real - even the knowledge of who God is, or is not.

Then who or what could God be? God or life is energy, which is light. Since God is light, everything in the world, including the world, man and his mind, needs to be a reflection of this light. Light is energy, which transforms from one form to another. This transformation is a process of sophistication. The process reflects an optical illusion of form, shape and consistency and an auditory illusion of different names, multiple belief- systems, varied fields of knowledge, unlimited situations and God.

God is light, and not an individual, who watches, judges, controls, punishes or grants wishes if prayed to. And light is intelligence. Intelligence sophisticates every moment and projects an optical and auditory illusion, which is a drama that appears as the real world, including God, that illusory man believes. God is not whom man imagines it to be. God is life, timeless and thoughtless.

daramantus
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by daramantus » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:47 pm

Trajk Logik wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:38 pm
Your Construct wrote:
Trajk Logik wrote:The problem with this is that at the moment I think about something, I'm not thinking about that something not existing at the same time. I'm thinking about that something in how it applies in achieving some goal. To think about it not existing requires a different kind of experience, and it still ends up existing - not as a vivid and clear thing as it appears when I see it, but as something less vivid and detailed - like a thought of your mother compared to the visual of your mother when she is in front of you. Your mother is more vivid and detailed when standing in front of you vs. just recalling her from memory and thinking about her not existing.

If there aren't any actual external causes to your consciousness, then there is no nothing. Everything would be within consciousness, or reality. In this case, "something" would refer to what is in reality. While "nothing" has nothing to refer to. "Nothing" is a concept that exists only in minds and is similar to all those other concepts and ideas humans think about that have no reference outside of the mind (like goblins and elves). So, "nothing" is actually something - an idea - which can have just as much causal effect as "something".
Hi Trajk Logik,

I like this too, this also makes sense... nothing is definitely something. This would have to mean that everything is an idea; literally everything, is just an idea. And I would then classify "something" and "nothing" as being contained within "everything". Pain, suffering, joy, happiness, good, evil, craving, hunger would just be ideas. Existence would have to be an idea, even self-awareness would have to be an idea. And if even self-awareness is just an idea, I'm not quite sure yet what that implies. If self-awareness is just an idea, does this mean that there truly is no such thing as the self? I swear to God, I think I'm going crazy sometimes. But even that would just be an idea too.

Best Regards,
Your Construct
No. Not everything is an idea. There is the feeling of pain, and then there is the idea of pain. I can think about pain without actually feeling it.
No, you're wrong.
nothing is nothing. Something is the opposite of nothing.
Space is nothing.

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