Who's minding the store?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Lacewing
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Lacewing » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:08 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Lacewing wrote:
I asked you very simple basic questions that any of us could answer: "What is the purpose of your posts?" and "Why do you post?".
The What and Why appears/happens for no reason, other than that's what's happening. No one is making anything happen. The thought that says ''I am making this happen'' is also what's appearing / happening to no one.

What is it that tries to intervene with the present experience, here and now?

Can anything do it?
Ah! (Thanks for your reply.) So... you are just a happening. :) That means the rest of us are just a happening too. Yes? So your happening is telling these other happenings "how it is". Meanwhile, these other happenings might curse back at you... and that's "how it is" too. :D Doesn't all of this seem kind of ridiculous?

If there is no "other", why all the discussion? Who needs to be told anything? Who doesn't already know?

Dalek Prime
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dalek Prime » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:05 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Lacewing wrote:
I asked you very simple basic questions that any of us could answer: "What is the purpose of your posts?" and "Why do you post?".
The What and Why appears/happens for no reason, other than that's what's happening. No one is making anything happen. The thought that says ''I am making this happen'' is also what's appearing / happening to no one.

What is it that tries to intervene with the present experience, here and now?

Can anything do it?
If you don't intervene daily on your behalf, you won't get far. Advice I always give is to keep swimming, not unlike a shark. It stops, it's existence becomes nullified. And only the shark can make itself swim. Currents can and will push it, but it must intervene on its own behalf to swim. And that's our life as well.

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:27 am

Lacewing wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
Lacewing wrote:
I asked you very simple basic questions that any of us could answer: "What is the purpose of your posts?" and "Why do you post?".
The What and Why appears/happens for no reason, other than that's what's happening. No one is making anything happen. The thought that says ''I am making this happen'' is also what's appearing / happening to no one.

What is it that tries to intervene with the present experience, here and now?

Can anything do it?
Ah! (Thanks for your reply.) So... you are just a happening. :) That means the rest of us are just a happening too. Yes? So your happening is telling these other happenings "how it is". Meanwhile, these other happenings might curse back at you... and that's "how it is" too. :D Doesn't all of this seem kind of ridiculous?

If there is no "other", why all the discussion? Who needs to be told anything? Who doesn't already know?
There is a knowing here that knows ...but it's not an individual knowing, the individual is already the known...and that is what's realised, it's like thinking backward to the real knower.

Not ridiculous really, it's the play of consciousness playing with itself. The illusion of separate parts are like pieces of a jig-saw puzzle playing the game of separation for a while just for the fun of putting it's parts back together as a whole again.

____

‘Lila’ (lee-la), is a Sanskrit word which means the entire ‘play’ of Life . It is considered ‘the dance of the Divine’.

Lila is the PROCESS of the Uni-verse discovering its true nature. It is the process of us discovering who we are.

It is the magical fun of being in the unfolding, of re-cognising that we are Oneness.

Read why we play the way we do here...>

http://stillnessproject.com/lila-the-pl ... ciousness/

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:05 am

Dalek Prime wrote: If you don't intervene daily on your behalf, you won't get far. Advice I always give is to keep swimming, not unlike a shark. It stops, it's existence becomes nullified. And only the shark can make itself swim. Currents can and will push it, but it must intervene on its own behalf to swim. And that's our life as well.
Okay, reverse it then. Just try not swimming away from the shark and allow it to engulf you. The fundamental primal instinct is to swim away from the shark, no thought or intervention is present in the immediate moment of any action taken.. the action of swimming away is an automatic functional response, there's no separate controller having control over that action involved here... there's just pure direct experiencing, there is no one to intervene in the direction an action will go, it's purely primal instinct to swim away. In other words, any action in life is one unitary movement, spontaneous and automatic. There is no thinking or thinker present in any action. The thinker/thought appears after the event... as in a reaction to the event.

The idea there is a separate you doing the action of swimming away from the shark is the illusory idea the shark is separate from you. Nothing is separate from you, the shark is an appearance of impending danger, which triggers an automatic action taken to avoid the danger, in the same context you have a toothache which prompts you to take action in seeking a dentist. That's an automatic unitary response. Then overlaid upon this action is the thought ...''I am going to the dentist to have my tooth checked out'' ...that's all conceptual illusory thought appearing over what's already happening, it's a false superimposition. In other words a phantom appearance of a separate doer.

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Trajk Logik
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Trajk Logik » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:46 am

Dalek Prime wrote: Take away something, and what are you left with? Nothing. Now, you are correct to an extent. Nothingness cannot directly be known, simply because when you lack consciousness, you cannot observe the nothingness you are, precisely because you aren't.
But the strange thing is, that others can observe your unconscious self. If not, then who, or what, is it that the EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) is trying to revive? What is it that they do to bring you back from "nothing"? How is it that you recover from "nothing" every morning when you wake up? You must be more than just your consciousness because you still exist even when it is gone.

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Trajk Logik
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Trajk Logik » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:40 pm

Dontaskme wrote: Somethingness ( Known) IS in relation to Nothingness (Unknown) - these two concepts are in the same moment of THIS conception...the idea something is meaningless without it's counterpart nothing... no counterpart, no whole.

That which is known is illusory.

The unknown is unknowable.

= Zero
The problem with this is that at the moment I think about something, I'm not thinking about that something not existing at the same time. I'm thinking about that something in how it applies in achieving some goal. To think about it not existing requires a different kind of experience, and it still ends up existing - not as a vivid and clear thing as it appears when I see it, but as something less vivid and detailed - like a thought of your mother compared to the visual of your mother when she is in front of you. Your mother is more vivid and detailed when standing in front of you vs. just recalling her from memory and thinking about her not existing.

If there aren't any actual external causes to your consciousness, then there is no nothing. Everything would be within consciousness, or reality. In this case, "something" would refer to what is in reality. While "nothing" has nothing to refer to. "Nothing" is a concept that exists only in minds and is similar to all those other concepts and ideas humans think about that have no reference outside of the mind (like goblins and elves). So, "nothing" is actually something - an idea - which can have just as much causal effect as "something".

Dalek Prime
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dalek Prime » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:03 pm

Trajk Logik wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote: Take away something, and what are you left with? Nothing. Now, you are correct to an extent. Nothingness cannot directly be known, simply because when you lack consciousness, you cannot observe the nothingness you are, precisely because you aren't.
But the strange thing is, that others can observe your unconscious self. If not, then who, or what, is it that the EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) is trying to revive? What is it that they do to bring you back from "nothing"? How is it that you recover from "nothing" every morning when you wake up? You must be more than just your consciousness because you still exist even when it is gone.
Unconsciousness is not nothing. Whilst it goes to instruct me what no consciousness might feel like, there is no brain death. The wetworks has not broken down completely.

Try not to conflate existence with consciousness. Rocks exist. They are not conscious.

Your Construct
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Your Construct » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:36 pm

Trajk Logik wrote:The problem with this is that at the moment I think about something, I'm not thinking about that something not existing at the same time. I'm thinking about that something in how it applies in achieving some goal. To think about it not existing requires a different kind of experience, and it still ends up existing - not as a vivid and clear thing as it appears when I see it, but as something less vivid and detailed - like a thought of your mother compared to the visual of your mother when she is in front of you. Your mother is more vivid and detailed when standing in front of you vs. just recalling her from memory and thinking about her not existing.

If there aren't any actual external causes to your consciousness, then there is no nothing. Everything would be within consciousness, or reality. In this case, "something" would refer to what is in reality. While "nothing" has nothing to refer to. "Nothing" is a concept that exists only in minds and is similar to all those other concepts and ideas humans think about that have no reference outside of the mind (like goblins and elves). So, "nothing" is actually something - an idea - which can have just as much causal effect as "something".
Hi Trajk Logik,

I like this too, this also makes sense... nothing is definitely something. This would have to mean that everything is an idea; literally everything, is just an idea. And I would then classify "something" and "nothing" as being contained within "everything". Pain, suffering, joy, happiness, good, evil, craving, hunger would just be ideas. Existence would have to be an idea, even self-awareness would have to be an idea. And if even self-awareness is just an idea, I'm not quite sure yet what that implies. If self-awareness is just an idea, does this mean that there truly is no such thing as the self? I swear to God, I think I'm going crazy sometimes. But even that would just be an idea too.

Best Regards,
Your Construct

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Trajk Logik
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Trajk Logik » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:38 pm

Your Construct wrote:
Trajk Logik wrote:The problem with this is that at the moment I think about something, I'm not thinking about that something not existing at the same time. I'm thinking about that something in how it applies in achieving some goal. To think about it not existing requires a different kind of experience, and it still ends up existing - not as a vivid and clear thing as it appears when I see it, but as something less vivid and detailed - like a thought of your mother compared to the visual of your mother when she is in front of you. Your mother is more vivid and detailed when standing in front of you vs. just recalling her from memory and thinking about her not existing.

If there aren't any actual external causes to your consciousness, then there is no nothing. Everything would be within consciousness, or reality. In this case, "something" would refer to what is in reality. While "nothing" has nothing to refer to. "Nothing" is a concept that exists only in minds and is similar to all those other concepts and ideas humans think about that have no reference outside of the mind (like goblins and elves). So, "nothing" is actually something - an idea - which can have just as much causal effect as "something".
Hi Trajk Logik,

I like this too, this also makes sense... nothing is definitely something. This would have to mean that everything is an idea; literally everything, is just an idea. And I would then classify "something" and "nothing" as being contained within "everything". Pain, suffering, joy, happiness, good, evil, craving, hunger would just be ideas. Existence would have to be an idea, even self-awareness would have to be an idea. And if even self-awareness is just an idea, I'm not quite sure yet what that implies. If self-awareness is just an idea, does this mean that there truly is no such thing as the self? I swear to God, I think I'm going crazy sometimes. But even that would just be an idea too.

Best Regards,
Your Construct
No. Not everything is an idea. There is the feeling of pain, and then there is the idea of pain. I can think about pain without actually feeling it.

osgart
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by osgart » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:40 am

the physical reality dont reason. The mental world does. Nothing is very much something it is the absence of all that exists. Something cant come from nothing and intelligence and life didnt arise out of nothingness. Thats an impossibility.
Since we dont have color ink cartridges for our eye sight everything you sense is reality it just may not be the one you are looking for. Who demands us to fully reject our senses?

osgart
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by osgart » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:47 am

the label means nothing. The meaning of the label is everything. Which makes me wonder if language is a discovered reality inherent to our understanding . Anyway! Maybe just the power of experience and memory and association is so strong that labels become language.

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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by osgart » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:59 am

yet how is meaning a shared experience that resonates so clearly and strongly among peoples.
When i say be objective! A person learning the word from never experiencing it before gains mastery of it very quickly. Objective has a meaning of comparing viewpoints that are oppositional using balanced judgment that is just and fair and doing it equally

Beauty
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Beauty » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:02 pm

Who's minding the store?

The subjectifying mind of man is minding the store. That's the one with all the answers.
In other words, our emotions, our instincts, our feelings, our heart, our mind is the answer to everything.
Does our higher mind not guide us towards the right way of things? It does.

Dontaskme
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:02 am

Beauty wrote:Who's minding the store?

The subjectifying mind of man is minding the store. That's the one with all the answers.
There is no man or woman. There is only you the non-conceptual subject objectifying itself as a conceptual object known. So the man/woman an objective idea is already known by the subject you, therefore the object cannot be the knower. It claims to be the knower because it is unable to see or know it's original face, so it takes on it's reflected phantom face of the known, in other words it's takes on it's mirrors image.

Who is our original face behind the mask is the one question to all our answers.

Beauty wrote:In other words, our emotions, our instincts, our feelings, our heart, our mind is the answer to everything.
Does our higher mind not guide us towards the right way of things? It does.
The higher mind is always this immediate self shining luminous presence right here and now, it is our true nondual self that lies behind the idea of right and wrong, space-time cause and effect duality. It's unconditioned pure love, comfortably numb, fearless and never suffers, having no concept of right or wrong, good or bad, pleasure or pain....but the one identified with itself is a superimposed idea overlaid upon that nondual self that will always seek for pleasure in order to feel comfortable, loved and wanted, and in that seeking lies the contraction of feeling separate, it seeks outside itself in vain to try complete itself without ever realising there is nothing outside of itself except it's own projection, and that what it seeks is already within itself, it's own comfortable neutral position of wholeness, completeness and love resides within itself always.

Beauty
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Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Beauty » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:10 am

Dontaskme wrote: Who is our original face behind the mask is the one question to all our answers.
Let's say we know our original face. Does life stop there? No, it goes on. Isn't that what we are doing, living our life? So we live, and we live it righteously in the sense, no vices and no wickedness, for they bring pain/suffering and no one likes pain/suffering.
Dontaskme wrote: The higher mind is always this immediate self shining luminous presence right here and now, it is our true nondual self that lies behind the idea of right and wrong, space-time cause and effect duality. It's unconditioned pure love, comfortably numb, fearless and never suffers, having no concept of right or wrong, good or bad, pleasure or pain....but the one identified with itself is a superimposed idea overlaid upon that nondual self that will always seek for pleasure in order to feel comfortable, loved and wanted, and in that seeking lies the contraction of feeling separate, it seeks outside itself in vain to try complete itself without ever realising there is nothing outside of itself except it's own projection, and that what it seeks is already within itself, it's own comfortable neutral position of wholeness, completeness and love resides within itself always.
So if it seeks outside itself, then how is it God? And if it is, then it would not do that, but if it does, then it is not God for it develops failings like seeking outside itself in order to feel complete, for the feeling of wholeness would come with no vices nor wickedness in us. So that means it has developed vices and wickedness and so is fallen. We are that face of that fallen God(Let's say Highest Mind, for in the fallen state, it is Higher Mind and our mind here - two faces of God). We are the fallen face of our God(Highest Mind at that point, but Higher{one down} later on when fallen.)

My point is this simply - Let's say we know who and what we originally initially are in the world. Then what? Does life stop there? No, we live our life. And in living our life, we developed two faces, and we are the fallen face of our God in Heaven which we used to be before falling from grace in Heaven - the grace of God.

All said and done, I know it's a bit late to ask you that, but what exactly do you mean by, 'who's minding the store?' Do you mean to ask who is our original face?

Our original face is God. "Know ye not that ye are all Gods, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"
That is who minds the store(currently at the status Higher Mind, not Highest for we also have a mind here.)

Also, as a side comment, "Jesus is risen," we begin to understand, for we must also rise like Jesus did. Jesus was a fallen Almighty God(ruling authority of Heaven), others are simply public so Gods, Gods fall, Almighty Gods also fall. Vices like - laziness, lust, ego, envy, greed, gluttony, anger we must not keep in us as scripture says. Wickedness we must not do, or in other words, "Go, and do not sin," we begin to understand as scripture mentions. This way we rise into Heaven our actual abode after having paid all past dues, and we are Gods again having full consciousness, vast mind, mind of God again, Highest Mind, Highest Consciousness. This is not to say we cannot fall again, we can. Life goes the way it goes, and it's all good.

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