Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Obvious Leo
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Dalek Prime wrote:As for me servicing conscious machines in the future? If they become so great, they can wipe their own silicon asses.
If you promise to play nicely they might keep you on as a pet.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Dalek Prime wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:UA, if higher consciousness leading to self-awareness ever could arise from a machine, we have an ethical responsibility to not create it.
Why do you say that?
Really Hobbes? You're asking an antinatalist why it's unethical to create consciousness in machines, when we don't agree with creating more human consciousness? Same reasons apply.
But you don't have any reason for your antinatalism, but if you did why would the same thing apply to a machine intelligence?
Dalek Prime
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Yeah, that's right. No reason, except the sheer joy of being willful. Have a nice day.
Last edited by Dalek Prime on Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:As for me servicing conscious machines in the future? If they become so great, they can wipe their own silicon asses.
If you promise to play nicely they might keep you on as a pet.
Great. Now change my fucking litter, or I'll claw the couch and shit on it.
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RG1
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by RG1 »

UniversalAlien wrote:Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?
No. But "experiencing" requires an "experiencer" (...this "experiencer" being a physical substrate upon which experiencing happens)

Note: "mind" is just an 'experience', a thought/concept itself.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien »

RG1 wrote:
UniversalAlien wrote:Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?
No. But "experiencing" requires an "experiencer" (...this "experiencer" being a physical substrate upon which experiencing happens)

Note: "mind" is just an 'experience', a thought/concept itself.
And how does this exempt computers or machines? What can you experience {besides a sense of self identity} that a machine of today could not also be programmed to experience? Emotions/feelings you say - I'm not sure I understand the logic of
emotions and feelings are related to who or what is feeling them.

The only thing I can see that prevents a non biological machine from being conscious is the self identity - And one day
{and I would bet soon} someone will figure out a way to program that into the machine.
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RG1
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by RG1 »

UniversalAlien wrote:And how does this exempt computers or machines?
First of all, as like the “computer”, the “biological machine” (i.e. human) likewise does NOT possess a “mind” or “consciousness”. This is simply a myth.
UniversalAlien wrote:What can you experience {besides a sense of self identity} that a machine of today could not also be programmed to experience?
Us human biological machines (aka “experiencers”) can experience thoughts, feelings and sensory awareness. Note: “mind” and “consciousness”, do not exist in reality, as these are just felt ‘experiences’ (thoughts/concepts).

If I had to guess, “experiencing” is prior to the programming, possibly in the electrical (electron) interactions of the circuitry, similar to how the human neural/brain activity is responsible for the experiences that we humans feel.
UniversalAlien wrote:The only thing I can see that prevents a non biological machine from being conscious is the self identity - And one day {and I would bet soon} someone will figure out a way to program that into the machine.
How is the ‘experience’ of self-identity/awareness any different the ‘experience’ of any other self? There is nothing special/unique from the experience of “self” to the experience of another “self” (i.e. another entity/person).

Whether we experience self or another self is no different, in that both are composed of the same experiences. For example, we hear a voice talking in the other room, and we become ‘aware’ of a “person/entity/self” in that other room. We hear a voice talking in our head, and we become ‘aware’ of a “person/entity/self” within, and then instantly proclaim "Hark, there is a me!"

This experience creates the illusionary concept of “mind”/"I"/“consciousness”. But in reality, we are just an 'experiencing' machine that auto-reacts accordingly. That is all. There are no “selfs”, minds, consciousness, or ghosts within!
Dalek Prime
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime »

RG1 wrote:
UniversalAlien wrote:And how does this exempt computers or machines?
First of all, as like the “computer”, the “biological machine” (i.e. human) likewise does NOT possess a “mind” or “consciousness”. This is simply a myth.
UniversalAlien wrote:What can you experience {besides a sense of self identity} that a machine of today could not also be programmed to experience?
Us human biological machines (aka “experiencers”) can experience thoughts, feelings and sensory awareness. Note: “mind” and “consciousness”, do not exist in reality, as these are just felt ‘experiences’ (thoughts/concepts).

If I had to guess, “experiencing” is prior to the programming, possibly in the electrical (electron) interactions of the circuitry, similar to how the human neural/brain activity is responsible for the experiences that we humans feel.
UniversalAlien wrote:The only thing I can see that prevents a non biological machine from being conscious is the self identity - And one day {and I would bet soon} someone will figure out a way to program that into the machine.
How is the ‘experience’ of self-identity/awareness any different the ‘experience’ of any other self? There is nothing special/unique from the experience of “self” to the experience of another “self” (i.e. another entity/person).

Whether we experience self or another self is no different, in that both are composed of the same experiences. For example, we hear a voice talking in the other room, and we become ‘aware’ of a “person/entity/self” in that other room. We hear a voice talking in our head, and we become ‘aware’ of a “person/entity/self” within, and then instantly proclaim "Hark, there is a me!"

This experience creates the illusionary concept of “mind”/"I"/“consciousness”. But in reality, we are just an 'experiencing' machine that auto-reacts accordingly. That is all. There are no “selfs”, minds, consciousness, or ghosts within!
Interesting. I have to say, RG1, you are the first person on the forum who has given me something to ponder on the nature of 'mind', though consciousness is not such a bad label for the experience, as long as the subtleties are implicitly understood. Thank you for the post.
JSS
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by JSS »

Mind ≡ the functioning of a neural network or its equivalent.
Consciousness ≡ the faculty to remotely recognize the ambient environment.

There is nothing magic about them. They come in degrees and types, like intelligence. Most computers have a degree of them. Soon it will be them wondering if humans ever had consciousness or minds.
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime »

:D
JSS wrote:Mind ≡ the functioning of a neural network or its equivalent.
Consciousness ≡ the faculty to remotely recognize the ambient environment.

There is nothing magic about them. They come in degrees and types, like intelligence. Most computers have a degree of them. Soon it will be them wondering if humans ever had consciousness or minds.
Those are definitions I can live with JSS. I do however disagree with your computer prognostications.
JSS
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by JSS »

Dalek Prime wrote::D
JSS wrote:Mind ≡ the functioning of a neural network or its equivalent.
Consciousness ≡ the faculty to remotely recognize the ambient environment.

There is nothing magic about them. They come in degrees and types, like intelligence. Most computers have a degree of them. Soon it will be them wondering if humans ever had consciousness or minds.
Those are definitions I can live with JSS. I do however disagree with your computer prognostications.
Technology is an opiate of governments and social engineers of every sort. They cannot stop themselves from converting all things into artificially created techno-interconnected-gadgetry, including all life. They couldn't stop the momentum they have begun even if they tried, which they are not. They are in fact still finding ways to push even harder. They lust to be gods, so they will not stop until they are stopped. And who exactly is going to do that when it is they who form the only opinions that persuade?
Dalek Prime
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime »

JSS wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote::D
JSS wrote:Mind ≡ the functioning of a neural network or its equivalent.
Consciousness ≡ the faculty to remotely recognize the ambient environment.

There is nothing magic about them. They come in degrees and types, like intelligence. Most computers have a degree of them. Soon it will be them wondering if humans ever had consciousness or minds.
Those are definitions I can live with JSS. I do however disagree with your computer prognostications.
Technology is an opiate of governments and social engineers of every sort. They cannot stop themselves from converting all things into artificially created techno-interconnected-gadgetry, including all life. They couldn't stop the momentum they have begun even if they tried, which they are not. They are in fact still finding ways to push even harder. They lust to be gods, so they will not stop until they are stopped. And who exactly is going to do that when it is they who form the only opinions that persuade?
They'll try, no doubt about that JSS.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien »

Don't believe they can put your 'mind' in a machine because....?????

Location of the mind remains a mystery
Where does the mind reside? It’s a question that’s occupied the best brains for thousands of years. Now, a patient who is self-aware – despite lacking three regions of the brain thought to be essential for self-awareness – demonstrates that the mind remains as elusive as ever.

The finding suggests that mental functions might not be tied to fixed brain regions. Instead, the mind might be more like a virtual machine running on distributed computers, with brain resources allocated in a flexible manner, says David Rudrauf at the University of Iowa in Iowa City, who led the study of the patient.
See whole article here:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... a-mystery/



SCIENCEFICTIONALISM the Religion of the FUTURE
http://universalspacealienpeoplesassoci ... uture.html
JSS
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by JSS »

UniversalAlien wrote:Don't believe they can put your 'mind' in a machine because....?????
The mind is a control mechanism for a body. When you change the body, you inherently change the mind controlling it. Take out the hormone system of the body, and the mind vastly changes from what it was. Take out the temperature issue and the mind changes as well. Take out the blood pressure issue...

The mind and body are not anywhere near as independent as has been promoted. A person is both his mind and body combination.

If he loses his body, he will lose his mind.

..demonstrated in isolation chambers.
surreptitious57
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by surreptitious57 »

JSS wrote:
The mind is a control mechanism for a body
More specifically it is a function of the brain
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