Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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UniversalAlien
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Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:44 am

Exactly what consciousness is is open to interpretation and definitions of it vary - So let us say I'm asking the question
assuming we can agree on a simple and basic concept of Human consciousness - A Human aware of itself and capable of
interacting with the environment. Of course the same definition could be used for machine consciousness - Awareness
and an ability to interact with the environment - many machines could do that now. But the difference here is that the
Human is aware of himself - So the question then becomes can a machine be aware of itself? - Can a machine have an
identity of itself? You could say "I think therefor I am" - Could the machine say the same? - Can the machine develop, or
be so programmed to have, a self awareness of itself - Or can Artificial Intelligence be programmed into a machine and
be given sentience and Human like consciousness :?:

Reseaarch shows computer scientists working on conscious AI - And they have held symposiums on the subject.
But to date, and as far as I know, no one has yet passed the Touring test {a test that states if the machine can
fool you into thinking it is conscious, then it is conscious}. And even if it did I do not think that would prove
sentience - An existent state where a conscious machine is aware of itself and has an ego and an identity.
Futurists such as Ray Kurzweil and myself say it is inevitable - Others say it will never happen, no machine will
ever really be conscious - WHAT DO YOU THINK :?:

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:54 pm

Since there is no evidence whatsoever of a mind without a functioning body I would say yes.

Part of the problem for you here is that, aside from your own mind you only have consequential evidence that other minds exist at all.

But even despite this you would be fooling yourself to pretend that similar evidence in machines, for example, amounted to the same thing as you call a mind.

The big question is what degree of cerebral complexity gives rise to a mind, and in what part of evolution this becomes significant enough to achieve the definition of "mind".
You might try to start with saying what you think a mind is. By the time you have a working definition you may well have answered your question.

A far as the Turing test goes: making a machine that might fool someone enough to pass the test is not the same as the machine having a mind.

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:41 pm

All mind is like a doughnut hole; without the pastry, the hole isn't there. So to, the mind and consciousness.

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:35 pm

Look at this way - We may have to flash forward a bit, but it might be possible today. We use the most advanced
computer in existence and the best AI available. We hook you up with the latest medical body and mind scanning
available - scans that actually record the functioning of your biological brain - can read and interpret the bio-electrical
functioning of your brain. Then we download this into the super computer - then the question might become whether
a software program could be developed to work as your brain works {or a least similar as a machine is not biological}.
Now say that can be done we can duplicate your thinking processes.

Now we try the UniversalAlien test for AI consciousness - I say if I can have a conversation with the machine where
the machine can supply more to the conversation then my mind alone - it is conscious. Now some might say
computers can do that right now - and some might say in that limited way they are already conscious. But now
I have cloned my conscious mind into the machine - It can literally think for me - It can 'feel' what I feel and make
decisions for me - In a sense some medical devices are already doing this.

One day i die - And they turn on my computer and the computer asks where is my biological self - And you tell his
cloned machine he is dead. And the machine says what do I do now? And now what do you do with the conscious
AI running in the machine? What if it starts to question you on the circumstances of my demise and expresses its
remorse - Is it conscious? Am I still alive in a digital matrix :?: Can I now be uploaded into an android :?:
Though biologically dead I can still think - do I still exist :?:

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:50 pm

Per the last question, I am not buying that YOU exist, let alone think, as you state. It is not you. If I copied the downloaded data onto another machine, do you exist in two places? I say no, regarding both copies.

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:00 am

Lets try a thought experiment, UA. Assuming we could do this download transfer now, and you are still alive. Would you be concerned if I incarcerated your copy in a prison? Would you suffer, being on the outside, from the incarceration?

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:43 am

Dalek Prime wrote:Lets try a thought experiment, UA. Assuming we could do this download transfer now, and you are still alive. Would you be concerned if I incarcerated your copy in a prison? Would you suffer, being on the outside, from the incarceration?
Two ways of looking at that. Until the development a fully functional android body {or a cloned biological one} any
machine consciousness is imprisoned by the machine - It can't go anywhere, its sentience is limited by the machine
- And yes that would be a good reason to question whether it was really sentient at all. On the other hand I'm still waiting
for someone to tell me what law of science or philosophy requires that sentience and/or consciousness be biological
in design or function? What law Mr. Dalek Prime says that only biological beings can be conscious :?:

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:48 am

What law? The present one that shows that, so far in the billions of years this universe has existed, there has yet to be another sentience that is not biological. I'm batting 1000 here. You? Zero.

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:04 am

UniversalAlien wrote:Look at this way - We may have to flash forward a bit, but it might be possible today. We use the most advanced
computer in existence and the best AI available. We hook you up with the latest medical body and mind scanning
available - scans that actually record the functioning of your biological brain - can read and interpret the bio-electrical
functioning of your brain. Then we download this into the super computer - then the question might become whether
a software program could be developed to work as your brain works {or a least similar as a machine is not biological}.
Now say that can be done we can duplicate your thinking processes.

Now we try the UniversalAlien test for AI consciousness - I say if I can have a conversation with the machine where
the machine can supply more to the conversation then my mind alone - it is conscious. Now some might say
computers can do that right now - and some might say in that limited way they are already conscious. But now
I have cloned my conscious mind into the machine - It can literally think for me - It can 'feel' what I feel and make
decisions for me - In a sense some medical devices are already doing this.

One day i die - And they turn on my computer and the computer asks where is my biological self - And you tell his
cloned machine he is dead. And the machine says what do I do now? And now what do you do with the conscious
AI running in the machine? What if it starts to question you on the circumstances of my demise and expresses its
remorse - Is it conscious? Am I still alive in a digital matrix :?: Can I now be uploaded into an android :?:
Though biologically dead I can still think - do I still exist :?:
Idle speculation forcing question begging circular thinking.

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:29 am

Dalek Prime wrote:What law? The present one that shows that, so far in the billions of years this universe has existed, there has yet to be another sentience that is not biological. I'm batting 1000 here. You? Zero.
Are you sure? Even scientists now believe in the possibility, if not the probability, of ET. And what makes you think that
when and if we meet this ET intelligence it will be biological? - I speculate it might not be. As we evolved from matter in
an organic form I speculate that matter in an inorganic form could have evolved differently - Machine like, as we are
evolving our machines - Tell me why not? Look you use the ID Dalek Prime - the Daleks, Dr. WHO's version of an evil mechanical intelligence programmed to exterminate - not possible in reality you think?

It is conceivable, even now, with what we know about AI and the way it is advancing, that the entire world could be
controlled by AI intelligence - And one big reason for harping on conscious AI is that it is conceivable that we could create
Ai programs that control us and that without consciousness these feeilingless programs may make a mistake, a virus
develop in the program and like the Daleks start the command program - EXTERMINATE :!:

"Biology is a software process. Our bodies are made up of trillions of cells, each governed by this process. You and I are walking around with outdated software running in our bodies, which evolved in a very different era."
- Ray Kurzweil

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:54 am

Yes, I'm certain. As stated, the trajectory of the universe from its beginnings to the present bear my witness, argue though you may, and are. And don't quote an idiot like Kurzweil to me. One thing I can't stand is the babble of transhumanists. Such rubbish.

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Obvious Leo » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:28 am

Without a proper definition of consciousness this question has no answer. Human minds are embodied so to speak of a human mind in the absence of a human body is a logical fallacy. Likewise the mind of a dog needs the body of a dog and the mind of an aardvark needs the body of an aardvark.

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UniversalAlien
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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:42 am

Obvious Leo wrote:Without a proper definition of consciousness this question has no answer. Human minds are embodied so to speak of a human mind in the absence of a human body is a logical fallacy. Likewise the mind of a dog needs the body of a dog and the mind of an aardvark needs the body of an aardvark.
Consciousness is a process that is aware of itself and the environment where it exists.

By this definition computer consciousness may have already exceeded that of Mans
- And the consciousness of Humanity is already tenuous.

Welcome to the Cyber Universe.

-UniversalAlien

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Obvious Leo » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:50 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
Consciousness is a process that is aware of itself and the environment where it exists.
So you reckon that consciousness and self-awareness are synonymous constructs. Since this is a non-standard usage of these terms perhaps you could explain your reasoning.

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Re: Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:19 am

Obvious Leo wrote:
UniversalAlien wrote:
Consciousness is a process that is aware of itself and the environment where it exists.
So you reckon that consciousness and self-awareness are synonymous constructs. Since this is a non-standard usage of these terms perhaps you could explain your reasoning.
I would suggest that conciousness is the precursor to self-awareness. Animals are conscious, but not necessarily self-aware, unlike human animals. And existence is the precursor to consciousness, though inanimate objects exist, and are not conscious of their existence. That, to my mind, is the requisite hierarchy.

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