Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Beauty
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Beauty » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:01 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
How do you know that the mind covers the whole body? Does the mind have nerve attachments to the entire body? How do you measure mind?

PhilX
Well, our mind is like our spirit, it is not body, so it is spiritual not physical. But the physical body of ours is according to our mind or in other words spirit. Mind does not have physical nerve attachments to the entire body but it has spiritual nerve attachments to the entire body. The spiritual - spirit, we cannot see, and so we cannot see but only sense these spiritual nerve attachments. For the same reason mind cannot be measured physically with a scale, but it can be measured spiritually in the form of we having a sense of it.

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Harbal
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Harbal » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:16 am

Beauty wrote:mind cannot be measured physically with a scale, but it can be measured spiritually in the form of we having a sense of it.
Okay then, using spiritual units, can you tell us how much mind you have?

Beauty
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Beauty » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:53 am

What I mean to say is that mind may have an idea how big it is and what and where of it, but we don't, we just have a connection to a small part of it. The Higher Mind - Consciousness, we cannot measure, but of our own mind, we have some idea as to its potential. When I talked about spiritual measurement, I just meant that we have the feeling that mind is there, not that it can be actually measured by us in quantities - quantas of energy.

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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:26 pm

Beauty wrote:What I mean to say is that mind may have an idea how big it is and what and where of it, but we don't, we just have a connection to a small part of it. The Higher Mind - Consciousness, we cannot measure, but of our own mind, we have some idea as to its potential. When I talked about spiritual measurement, I just meant that we have the feeling that mind is there, not that it can be actually measured by us in quantities - quantas of energy.
Is there a physical connection between the mind and the brain in your philosophy? You talk of a higher mind or consciousness, but then talk about a smaller mind which you indicate is our mind while implying that consciousness isn't our mind so where is consciousness in relationship to the human body in your philosophy?

PhilX

Beauty
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Beauty » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:40 pm

I never implied that consciousness isn't our mind, of course it is, that is exactly what it is in fact. And the connection of the brain to the mind is of course not like physical or spiritual but wireless. Consciousness in relation to the human body is of course in the mind with which we have a wireless connection.

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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:45 pm

Beauty wrote:I never implied that consciousness isn't our mind, of course it is, that is exactly what it is in fact. And the connection of the brain to the mind is of course not like physical or spiritual but wireless.
How do you know there is a wireless connection between the mind and the brain? What study shows this?

PhilX

Beauty
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Beauty » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:40 am

The same study that shows you love that girl or that boy, and that you feel this way or that way, or that you dislike this food or that food or clothing etc. Where is it all written, recorded and how? Wireless! It's all a feeling, and it is true.

Beauty
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Beauty » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:45 am

On second thoughts, I think the most complex thing in the world would be what we consider complex, for whatever I list here, then in its own sphere it would not be sitting complex, so complexity really exists in us as to not understand something. Then the right answer to the question would be - whatever we find complex is complex and it is because we don't understand it, not because it cannot be understood.

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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by commonsense » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:03 pm

In the realm of the unknown unknown, there may be an object more complex than the human brain. For that reason, I regard the human brain merely as a candidate for the most complex object in the universe.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:48 pm

As you can see dolphins have far more complex than the human brain.
This is particularly interesting since it is known that the number of convolutions directly relates to higher brain functions such as consciousness and awareness.

Image

When we kill a dolphin we destroy a mind far greater than out own.

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Greta
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Greta » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:12 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:As you can see dolphins have far more complex than the human brain.
This is particularly interesting since it is known that the number of convolutions directly relates to higher brain functions such as consciousness and awareness.

[img]

When we kill a dolphin we destroy a mind far greater than out own.
There would certainly need to be considerable extra brain complexity needed to allow dolphins to keep one brain hemisphere awake at all times, since each hemisphere must at times act as a proxy complete brain. Also, dolphins are unusual in that they have excellent eyesight, hearing and echolocation. That's a great deal of processing and concomitant brain complexity.

Whatever, intelligent mammal brains are the most information-dense entities that we know of in physical reality. Then again, why choose brains? Why not say that forebrains - the most complex parts of brains - are the most complex objects in the universe? Or the cortex, as it's the most complex part of the forebrain? Why not the most complex organism, rather than just their brains?

Then again, the Earth contains all life that we know and is far more complex than we are, even if it has large, relatively simple zones. Ditto the solar system, galaxy etc.

A stimulating topic to think about, but messy.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:27 am

Greta wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:As you can see dolphins have far more complex than the human brain.
This is particularly interesting since it is known that the number of convolutions directly relates to higher brain functions such as consciousness and awareness.

[img]

When we kill a dolphin we destroy a mind far greater than out own.
There would certainly need to be considerable extra brain complexity needed to allow dolphins to keep one brain hemisphere awake at all times, since each hemisphere must at times act as a proxy complete brain. Also, dolphins are unusual in that they have excellent eyesight, hearing and echolocation. That's a great deal of processing and concomitant brain complexity.

Whatever, intelligent mammal brains are the most information-dense entities that we know of in physical reality. Then again, why choose brains? Why not say that forebrains - the most complex parts of brains - are the most complex objects in the universe? Or the cortex, as it's the most complex part of the forebrain? Why not the most complex organism, rather than just their brains?

Then again, the Earth contains all life that we know and is far more complex than we are, even if it has large, relatively simple zones. Ditto the solar system, galaxy etc.

A stimulating topic to think about, but messy.
Take any random 500 square trillion miles of matter in the solar system outside of earth and there is less complexity in it that the brain of a mouse.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:35 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:As you can see dolphins have far more complex than the human brain.
This is particularly interesting since it is known that the number of convolutions directly relates to higher brain functions such as consciousness and awareness.

Image

When we kill a dolphin we destroy a mind far greater than out own.
Tell that to those bastard Japanese and the shit-heads at Sea World.

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Greta
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Greta » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:29 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greta wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:As you can see dolphins have far more complex than the human brain.
This is particularly interesting since it is known that the number of convolutions directly relates to higher brain functions such as consciousness and awareness.

[img]

When we kill a dolphin we destroy a mind far greater than out own.
There would certainly need to be considerable extra brain complexity needed to allow dolphins to keep one brain hemisphere awake at all times, since each hemisphere must at times act as a proxy complete brain. Also, dolphins are unusual in that they have excellent eyesight, hearing and echolocation. That's a great deal of processing and concomitant brain complexity.

Whatever, intelligent mammal brains are the most information-dense entities that we know of in physical reality. Then again, why choose brains? Why not say that forebrains - the most complex parts of brains - are the most complex objects in the universe? Or the cortex, as it's the most complex part of the forebrain? Why not the most complex organism, rather than just their brains?

Then again, the Earth contains all life that we know and is far more complex than we are, even if it has large, relatively simple zones. Ditto the solar system, galaxy etc.

A stimulating topic to think about, but messy.
Take any random 500 square trillion miles of matter in the solar system outside of earth and there is less complexity in it that the brain of a mouse.
Or its cortex :)

It will interesting to see what happens with information density in machines.

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Harbal
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Re: Do you regard the human brain as the most complex object in the universe?

Post by Harbal » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:59 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
When we kill a dolphin we destroy a mind far greater than out own.
In your case there are any number of things you could kill and say the same thing.

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