A philosophical treatise on mind

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Greylorn Ell
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Re: A philosophical treatise on mind

Post by Greylorn Ell » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:56 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Greylorn Ell wrote:Read HC's post and figure this out for yourself. You'll just bitch about any explanation I might propose.

Greylorn
I did read it, that's why I asked you as all he said was if he was born in a rich western capitalist system he'd not likely to have been a Muslim and more likely to have opposed Muslims due to 9/11 rather than, I assume, causing it. Where does your comment make any difference to this point?
Since he was born a rich Muslim and chose to murder rich capitalists, his religion/beliefs/inherited wealth is obviously irrelevant. Environmental factors have nothing to do with the man's choices. Bin Laden is evil at heart. His goal was to terminate the lives of others and fuck up the lives of those who survived.

Without his genius and resources he would have become a mere serial killer, someone with 20 heads of innocent people in his basement freezer. He learned to become a parallel killer.

That Muslims have accepted him as a hero of their cause tells anyone with a mind where their hearts lie, and why their minds lie.

Greylorn

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Arising_uk
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Re: A philosophical treatise on mind

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:21 am

Greylorn Ell wrote:Since he was born a rich Muslim and chose to murder rich capitalists, his religion/beliefs/inherited wealth is obviously irrelevant. ...
But that is not what he chose, what he chose was to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, remember when he was the friend of America, when he offered to kill Saddam Hussein for you, when the CIA funded and assisted him? So his religion and beliefs were obviously relevant although his wealth appears not to be a factor.
Environmental factors have nothing to do with the man's choices.
The environment of a theological education appears to have been a strong influence upon him? The environment of the Soviet invasion and his interaction with the CIA appear to have been a strong influence upon him?
Bin Laden is evil at heart. His goal was to terminate the lives of others and fuck up the lives of those who survived.
What nonsense you do speak. His goals were quite clear, to remove the infidel soldiers from the holy land - something that appears to have happened, to remove American influence from all the muslim nations and to overthrow all the pro-western dictators, looks like he's getting a fair bit of his way.

Do you consider your military and politicians evil? As they've certainly killed and fucked-up many more innocent lives than Bin Laden.
Without his genius and resources he would have become a mere serial killer, someone with 20 heads of innocent people in his basement freezer. He learned to become a parallel killer.
You just make it up as you go along. He learned Wahhabism in school and followed it to a logical conclusion. He learned to become a soldier in Afghanistan, he learned terrorism from the CIA and learned how to franchise it from America.
That Muslims have accepted him as a hero of their cause tells anyone with a mind where their hearts lie, and why their minds lie.
Some Muslims have, as there is not one cause in the world of Islam, and take a good look at who has, those who think themselves the poor and down-trodden, those who have been at the nasty end of decades of western supported regimes, its no wonder they looked up to him as he gave them a Muslim hero standing up for themselves, nonsense probably but a strong feeling nevertheless. He certainly understood iconography and it is definitely ironic that he pretty much looked like a western version of what Christ would have looked like.
Image

Anyhoo, I think your view too simplistic and HC's main point stands, he'd not be doing what he did if he hadn't been born and raised where he was.

Greylorn Ell
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Re: A philosophical treatise on mind

Post by Greylorn Ell » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:33 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Greylorn Ell wrote:Since he was born a rich Muslim and chose to murder rich capitalists, his religion/beliefs/inherited wealth is obviously irrelevant. ...
But that is not what he chose, what he chose was to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, remember when he was the friend of America, when he offered to kill Saddam Hussein for you, when the CIA funded and assisted him? So his religion and beliefs were obviously relevant although his wealth appears not to be a factor.
Environmental factors have nothing to do with the man's choices.
The environment of a theological education appears to have been a strong influence upon him? The environment of the Soviet invasion and his interaction with the CIA appear to have been a strong influence upon him?
Bin Laden is evil at heart. His goal was to terminate the lives of others and fuck up the lives of those who survived.
What nonsense you do speak. His goals were quite clear, to remove the infidel soldiers from the holy land - something that appears to have happened, to remove American influence from all the muslim nations and to overthrow all the pro-western dictators, looks like he's getting a fair bit of his way.

Do you consider your military and politicians evil? As they've certainly killed and fucked-up many more innocent lives than Bin Laden.
Without his genius and resources he would have become a mere serial killer, someone with 20 heads of innocent people in his basement freezer. He learned to become a parallel killer.
You just make it up as you go along. He learned Wahhabism in school and followed it to a logical conclusion. He learned to become a soldier in Afghanistan, he learned terrorism from the CIA and learned how to franchise it from America.
That Muslims have accepted him as a hero of their cause tells anyone with a mind where their hearts lie, and why their minds lie.
Some Muslims have, as there is not one cause in the world of Islam, and take a good look at who has, those who think themselves the poor and down-trodden, those who have been at the nasty end of decades of western supported regimes, its no wonder they looked up to him as he gave them a Muslim hero standing up for themselves, nonsense probably but a strong feeling nevertheless. He certainly understood iconography and it is definitely ironic that he pretty much looked like a western version of what Christ would have looked like.
Image

Anyhoo, I think your view too simplistic and HC's main point stands, he'd not be doing what he did if he hadn't been born and raised where he was.
AUK,

There seems little point in conversing with you or any other dogmatists. What passes in you for mind seems to be cast in concrete. I gave it my best shot.

I got it that you and other liberal, mindless Brits have followed your friends in France, belittling the nation that gave up its treasure and the lives of its young men so that you'd not be speaking German. I hope than we are not there to help when the Muslims you've embraced rise up and take your country from within.

Your comment about the state of the USA is correct. Our leaders are, for the most part evil people, from the top down.

The USA has been a liberal and generous country, and goddamn stupid. It allowed millions of Mexicans to enter here illegally, and then allowed them to become legal, or ignored. Thus it created a huge Democrat voter base. In fits and starts of liberalism, to collect votes, the USA created millions of worthless individuals dependent upon government benefits, thus millions of Democrat voters. They elected the Muslim socialist who is currently riding Air Force One to his Democrat fund raising parties, and who is furthering the rise of radical Islam, deliberately.

We've moved from a country that did more good than harm in the world, feeding millions because they were hungry, taking the sides of other nations in times of strife (e.g Great Britain, France, etc) without collecting payback or acquiring new territory. We've become a country whose filthy President's word is meaningless.

I'm sorry about that. I'm only one person who did not vote for him.

Greylorn

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Arising_uk
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Re: A philosophical treatise on mind

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:41 am

Greylorn Ell wrote:AUK,
There seems little point in conversing with you or any other dogmatists. What passes in you for mind seems to be cast in concrete. I gave it my best shot.
And a pretty poor shot it was as all it showed was that the republican has learnt nothing from Vietnam and thinks in black and white. You completely failed to address the actual point made and just used it promote your bigotry and prejudice.
I got it that you and other liberal, mindless Brits have followed your friends in France, belittling the nation that gave up its treasure and the lives of its young men so that you'd not be speaking German.
Them, 20,000,000 Soviets and soldiers from all parts of the British Empire. I've paid my respects to your's and mine's war dead, have you?
I hope than we are not there to help when the Muslims you've embraced rise up and take your country from within.
Given your views I'd have thought you'd like a world with women back in their place and harsh penalties for wrong-doing. They won't be rising-up, they'll be out-breeding us and getting elected, that's democracy for you. But we also have a large influx of Africans and they are pretty fundamentalist Christian so I think we'll have enough troops thanks and at least they won't charge us.
Your comment about the state of the USA is correct. Our leaders are, for the most part evil people, from the top down.
Republicans in the main.
The USA has been a liberal and generous country, and goddamn stupid. It allowed millions of Mexicans to enter here illegally, and then allowed them to become legal, or ignored. Thus it created a huge Democrat voter base. In fits and starts of liberalism, to collect votes, the USA created millions of worthless individuals dependent upon government benefits, thus millions of Democrat voters.
And provided Republicans with a massive cheap workforce and cleaners, nannies, servants, etc.
They elected the Muslim socialist who is currently riding Air Force One to his Democrat fund raising parties, and who is furthering the rise of radical Islam, deliberately.
Something Americans need I'd have thought as you need an 'enemy' to keep your internal divisions from fracturing you. Ever thought the republican Bush family with their gulf 'wars' have had a fair old hand in fostering this rise? Although Carter and Raygun have a say as well, but nice to see you're one of the card-carrying right-wing loons.
We've moved from a country that did more good than harm in the world, feeding millions because they were hungry, taking the sides of other nations in times of strife (e.g Great Britain, France, etc) without collecting payback or acquiring new territory.
Er! You didn't turn up until Jap attacked you and would have carried on dealing with the Nazi if they hadn't. You charged us for your help and used the opportunity to rebuild our enemies in your fear of communism. I also think many of your South American neighbours would have a slightly dimmer view of your doing good.
We've become a country whose filthy President's word is meaningless.
No more than any US presidents.
I'm sorry about that. I'm only one person who did not vote for him.
You need to read your election results.

artisticsolution
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Re: A philosophical treatise on mind

Post by artisticsolution » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:24 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
The USA has been a liberal and generous country, and goddamn stupid. It allowed millions of Mexicans to enter here illegally, and then allowed them to become legal, or ignored. Thus it created a huge Democrat voter base. In fits and starts of liberalism, to collect votes, the USA created millions of worthless individuals dependent upon government benefits, thus millions of Democrat voters.
And provided Republicans with a massive cheap workforce and cleaners, nannies, servants, etc.
You crack me up arising. I am enjoying this exchange.

Just think if you had to battle this mentality all day every day, even within your own family? It's exhausting.

However, sometimes something funny happens and it give a little boost. :)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/24/politics/ ... obamacare/

http://qz.com/370322/ted-cruz-on-obamacare/

thedoc
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Re: A philosophical treatise on mind

Post by thedoc » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:09 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Greylorn Ell wrote:AUK,
The USA has been a liberal and generous country, and goddamn stupid. It allowed millions of Mexicans to enter here illegally, and then allowed them to become legal, or ignored. Thus it created a huge Democrat voter base. In fits and starts of liberalism, to collect votes, the USA created millions of worthless individuals dependent upon government benefits, thus millions of Democrat voters.
And provided Republicans with a massive cheap workforce and cleaners, nannies, servants, etc.

Are you seriously going to try to argue that the Democrats, on one hand, whine and cry about stopping the illegal aliens, and on the other, whine and cry to make them legal, provide free care for them, and take advantage of the votes and cheap work force?

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Arising_uk
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Re: A philosophical treatise on mind

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:55 pm

thedoc wrote:Are you seriously going to try to argue that the Democrats, on one hand, whine and cry about stopping the illegal aliens, and on the other, whine and cry to make them legal, provide free care for them, and take advantage of the votes and cheap work force?
You talking to me? If so all I hear is two right-wing parties using a cheap workforce to score political points. Whatever happened to "Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses Yearning To Breathe Free"?
Last edited by Arising_uk on Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

artisticsolution
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Re: A philosophical treatise on mind

Post by artisticsolution » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:41 pm

thedoc wrote:

Are you seriously going to try to argue that the Democrats, on one hand, whine and cry about stopping the illegal aliens, and on the other, whine and cry to make them legal, provide free care for them, and take advantage of the votes and cheap work force?
OMG change the channel!

If they are legal, getting at least minimum wage and paying taxes, How is that any different than our American population now?

It is only because they are illegal that we provide free education and the minimum basic healthcare. It is the law and has been for longer than Fox News has been bellyaching over illegal immigrants.

Don't you see that not only is it inevitable that they will be legal citizens in the future, it is not only the only rational decision, it is also the right thing to do. They are human beings after all.

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