Will Our Self-Loathing Lead to a Spiritual Experience?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Will Our Self-Loathing Lead to a Spiritual Experience?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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We love ourselves to the point of idolatry; but we also intensely dislike ourselves — we find ourselves unutterably boring.

Correlated with this distaste for the idolatrously worshipped self, there is in all of us a desire, sometimes latent, sometimes conscious and passionately expressed, to escape from the prison of our individuality, an urge to self-transcendence.

It is to this urge that we owe mystical theology, spiritual exercises and yoga — to this, too, that we owe alcoholism and drug addiction.

~~~ Aldous Huxley ~~~







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The dictatorships of tomorrow will deprive men of their freedom, but will give them in exchange a happiness none the less real, as a subjective experience, for being chemically induced. The pursuit of happiness is one of the traditional rights of man; unfortunately, the achievement of happiness may turn out to be incompatible with another of man’s rights — namely, liberty.

Those who are offended by the idea that the swallowing of a pill may contribute to a genuinely religious experience should remember that all the standard mortifications — fasting, voluntary sleeplessness and self-torture — inflicted upon themselves by the ascetics of every religion for the purpose of acquiring merit, are also, like the mind-changing drugs, powerful devices for altering the chemistry of the body in general and the nervous system in particular. Or consider the procedures generally known as spiritual exercises. The breathing techniques taught by the yogi of India result in prolonged suspensions of respiration. These in turn result in an increased concentration of carbon dioxide in the blood; and the psychological consequence of this is a change in the quality of consciousness. Again, meditations involving long, intense concentration upon a single idea or image may also result — for neurological reasons which I do not profess to understand — in a slowing down of respiration and even in prolonged suspensions of breathing.

~~~ Aldous Huxley ~~~





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My own belief is that, though they may start by being something of an embarrassment, these new mind changers will tend in the long run to deepen the spiritual life of the communities in which they are available. . . . From being an activity mainly concerned with symbols, religion will be transformed into an activity concerned mainly with experience and intuition — an everyday mysticism underlying and giving significance to everyday rationality, everyday tasks and duties, everyday human relationships.

~~~ Aldous Huxley ~~~



All Quotes above are from the book Moksha by Aldous Huxley






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WanderingLands
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Re: Will Our Self-Loathing Lead to a Spiritual Experience?

Post by WanderingLands »

There was this group back in the 9th century called the Malamatiyya, who practiced self-blame as a means of spiritual growth and a connection to God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malamatiyy ... _and_Sufis

I believe that "Self-Loathing" is a spiritual place and/or process of where people tear down their Ego (or their "Identity") by means of self-loath. It's possibly part of the dwelling of nihilism which is reached when people are frustrated by the fact that they feel that they have never grown spiritually or discovered the Truth that they've been longing to find. It is possible, though, to overcome this negative state of mind, which leads to Liberation. Meditation is key to clearing the mind of all doubt and distress; there is also the system of Logic and other practices of Philosophy that sharpen the mind to become more objective. Then there's the creative and spiritual aspects of life; aesthetics, religion, spirituality.

I believe that we should find Balance. Self-loath is the extreme opposite to narcissism, which of course like its antithesis, leads to nowhere. We need balance.
madera23
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Re: Will Our Self-Loathing Lead to a Spiritual Experience?

Post by madera23 »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.





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either way, its called judging which is a sin for that is playing God who is judge.






We love ourselves to the point of idolatry; but we also intensely dislike ourselves — we find ourselves unutterably boring.

Correlated with this distaste for the idolatrously worshipped self, there is in all of us a desire, sometimes latent, sometimes conscious and passionately expressed, to escape from the prison of our individuality, an urge to self-transcendence.

It is to this urge that we owe mystical theology, spiritual exercises and yoga — to this, too, that we owe alcoholism and drug addiction.

~~~ Aldous Huxley ~~~







...........................................
Image





The dictatorships of tomorrow will deprive men of their freedom, but will give them in exchange a happiness none the less real, as a subjective experience, for being chemically induced. The pursuit of happiness is one of the traditional rights of man; unfortunately, the achievement of happiness may turn out to be incompatible with another of man’s rights — namely, liberty.

Those who are offended by the idea that the swallowing of a pill may contribute to a genuinely religious experience should remember that all the standard mortifications — fasting, voluntary sleeplessness and self-torture — inflicted upon themselves by the ascetics of every religion for the purpose of acquiring merit, are also, like the mind-changing drugs, powerful devices for altering the chemistry of the body in general and the nervous system in particular. Or consider the procedures generally known as spiritual exercises. The breathing techniques taught by the yogi of India result in prolonged suspensions of respiration. These in turn result in an increased concentration of carbon dioxide in the blood; and the psychological consequence of this is a change in the quality of consciousness. Again, meditations involving long, intense concentration upon a single idea or image may also result — for neurological reasons which I do not profess to understand — in a slowing down of respiration and even in prolonged suspensions of breathing.

~~~ Aldous Huxley ~~~





..............................
Image


My own belief is that, though they may start by being something of an embarrassment, these new mind changers will tend in the long run to deepen the spiritual life of the communities in which they are available. . . . From being an activity mainly concerned with symbols, religion will be transformed into an activity concerned mainly with experience and intuition — an everyday mysticism underlying and giving significance to everyday rationality, everyday tasks and duties, everyday human relationships.

~~~ Aldous Huxley ~~~



All Quotes above are from the book Moksha by Aldous Huxley






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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Will Our Self-Loathing Lead to a Spiritual Experience?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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- either way, its called judging which is a sin for that is playing God who is judge.



This is an odd statement, if this is your reaction to my post.



I'm not that familiar with your perspectives but it would be difficult to imagine a human being that is not capable of judgement either on an emotional, physical, sexual, instinctive, or most certainly on an intellectual level...



Unless, of course, you are jesting...







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madera
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Re: Will Our Self-Loathing Lead to a Spiritual Experience?

Post by madera »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



- either way, its called judging which is a sin for that is playing God who is judge.



This is an odd statement, if this is your reaction to my post.



I'm not that familiar with your perspectives but it would be difficult to imagine a human being that is not capable of judgement either on an emotional, physical, sexual, instinctive, or most certainly on an intellectual level...



Unless, of course, you are jesting...







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No I am not jesting. We have to overcome judging others or ourselves. Judging is putting oneself above others. It stems from the ego.
madera
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 11:45 pm

Re: Will Our Self-Loathing Lead to a Spiritual Experience?

Post by madera »

madera wrote:
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



- either way, its called judging which is a sin for that is playing God who is judge.



This is an odd statement, if this is your reaction to my post.



I'm not that familiar with your perspectives but it would be difficult to imagine a human being that is not capable of judgement either on an emotional, physical, sexual, instinctive, or most certainly on an intellectual level...



Unless, of course, you are jesting...







.........................................................Image









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No I am not jesting. We have to overcome judging others or ourselves. Judging is putting oneself above others. It stems from the ego.
I wish I could help you, but most people would rather suffer than seek the truth about the cause of their problems because they would have to face their fallen natures.
There are a lot of smart ar-ses here, so I would rather refrain from speaking the truth here. I can be pretty outspoken, but, it wouldn't be taken lightly here.
I will just say that I know the solution because I have overcome the emotions you are facing. I doubt anyone here would enjoy path I have taken.
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