science and the kingdom of heaven

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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jackles
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science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by jackles » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:00 am

is there a scientific reason why a rich man cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.i think that there is and its because of endomorphins in the brain.you see endomorphins are chemicals which give a sence of well being.you know that cosy everythings going great feeling.so if you have lots of dosh its likely your going to have this feeling of well being and contenment. but all of this chemical action though takes place in consciousness.consciousness is the only kingdom of heaven that there can be.so the good feeling attain by the endomorphins is only a temp chemicaly induce feeling of well being of the self.this feeling of well being is then lost in the eternity of the empty consciousness which is the awaiting situation for the self that occures after death.happiness without any chemicals is there for the only way to get into the eternal peace of heaven.regs jackles

Ginkgo
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by Ginkgo » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:46 am

jackles wrote:is there a scientific reason why a rich man cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.i think that there is and its because of endomorphins in the brain.you see endomorphins are chemicals which give a sence of well being.you know that cosy everythings going great feeling.so if you have lots of dosh its likely your going to have this feeling of well being and contenment. but all of this chemical action though takes place in consciousness.consciousness is the only kingdom of heaven that there can be.so the good feeling attain by the endomorphins is only a temp chemicaly induce feeling of well being of the self.this feeling of well being is then lost in the eternity of the empty consciousness which is the awaiting situation for the self that occures after death.happiness without any chemicals is there for the only way to get into the eternal peace of heaven.regs jackles

Jackles, you cannot draw a metaphysical conclusions derived from scientific facts.

jackles
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by jackles » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:26 am

just sayin it the way it is ginkgo.in fact its all physics.the physics of emotion in consciousness.

Ginkgo
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by Ginkgo » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:09 am

jackles wrote:just sayin it the way it is ginkgo.in fact its all physics.the physics of emotion in consciousness.

And how do we know this is the way it is? Probably because you want to say that reality works in such a way that consciousness is governed by physical laws. If so, then this is a metaphysical conclusion.

It is not the same as saying , "there are physical laws of consciousness" This is an ontological conclusion Unfortunately creationist scientists fail to understand or recognize this distinction.

jackles
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by jackles » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:35 am

no ginkgo what im saying is that consciousness is independent of the source..consciousness is independent of the brain .the anlagy would be light the speed of which is independent of the source as you know.

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Arising_uk
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:56 pm

jackles wrote:is there a scientific reason why a rich man cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. ...
Yes, it doesn't scientifically exist.

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Arising_uk
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:58 pm

jackles wrote:... empty consciousness which is the awaiting situation ...
What the hell is an "empty consciousness"?

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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by jackles » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm

the kingdom of heaven is just another name for consciousness.consciousness is the measurer in physics.ya cant have physics without a measurer.consciousness without event is either heaven or hell depending on how you experience your own consciousness without a local event inside it.

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hammock
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by hammock » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:38 pm

jackles wrote:is there a scientific reason why a rich man cannot enter the kingdom of heaven
As another possibility subsumed under "freedom" from the orderly system of outer experience, "heaven" (and any potential scarcity of the affluent) would have no presence or evidence in the phenomenal / natural world which science studies. Yay or nay, neither falls out of scientific explanations. It is futile or misguided for us to pretend that science / physics is about supersensible affairs or the original intelligible world of the ancients; and thereby it indirectly could unveil revelations about certain religious affairs that later parasitically leeched themselves to platonic philosophy. Certain neo-Kantians introduced the waywardness of treating the entities of scientific realism as if they were Kant's things in themselves; and so this fanciful parade continues in pop-culture territory of believing that quantum physics and the rest are some kind of hotline to either proving or disproving matters pertaining to a non-mediated / unfiltered reality, the supernatural, the unconditioned, etc.
IMMANUEL KANT wrote:First, as concerns the sources of metaphysical cognition, its very concept implies that they cannot be empirical. Its principles (including not only its maxims but its basic notions) must never be derived from experience. It must not be physical but metaphysical knowledge, viz., knowledge lying beyond experience. It can therefore have for its basis neither external experience, which is the source of physics proper, nor internal, which is the basis of empirical psychology. It is therefore a priori knowledge, coming from pure Understanding and pure Reason. <PROLEGOMENA TO ANY FUTURE METAPHYSICS>
JOHN WATSON wrote:...though we present ourselves to ourselves in the sphere of knowledge as under the law of natural causation, we yet as noumenal subjects may be free. Speculative philosophy in this way prepares the way for practical philosophy. ... Theoretical [speculative] philosophy is concerned solely with conceptions of nature; in other words, it deals with those pure conceptions or categories which are essential to the constitution of the orderly system of phenomena. The conception of freedom [practical philosophy], on the other hand ... only tells us that a free subject, if such a subject exists, must be independent of all sensuous desire.
...
Freedom cannot be brought under the laws that apply to facts of experience: It is a pure idea, the objective reality of which can never be verified by being exhibited in concrete sensible form. Its necessity is the necessity which compels reason to presuppose its own freedom as practical, i.e., to presuppose a will that is entirely independent of practical desire. But, though we cannot explain freedom, we can defend it from the attack of those who deny its possibility, by pointing out that in that denial they are assuming a knowledge of the ultimate nature of things of which the human mind is incapable. It would no doubt be a contradiction to maintain that there is a free subject, whose will has no connexion in its effects with the sensible world, and which is therefore absolutely opposed to natural law; but, there is no contradiction in maintaining that a free cause is not determined by laws of the sensible world, while yet its effects present themselves in the sensible world. If it is granted that there is nothing contradictory in the conception of such a cause, we can understand how the laws which determine the action of things in themselves are different from, and yet harmonious with, the laws of phenomena.
...
The thought of the intelligible world, which is a product of reason, does not imply that we are seeking to transcend the proper limits of knowledge; for, as we have already seen, reason necessarily sets up the idea of a noumenal or intelligible world, just because the world of experience shows itself to be limited.
...
The idea of an intelligible world is therefore merely a point of view, set up by reason beyond the world of sense, upon which reason feels itself compelled to take its stand, because otherwise it could not be conceived as of itself the source of action.
<THE PHILOSOPHY OF KANT EXPLAINED>

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Arising_uk
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:15 am

jackles wrote:the kingdom of heaven is just another name for consciousness.consciousness is the measurer in physics.ya cant have physics without a measurer.consciousness without event is either heaven or hell depending on how you experience your own consciousness without a local event inside it.
Then rich men can enter it as easily as poor ones. In fact rich ones probably have more chance as they have more leisure time to think about it if they wish.

"Consciousness without event", if I even understand this, is non-existent.

You can have Physics without a measurer, you just need a world with interacting objects, what you can't have is the measurements.

jackles
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by jackles » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:32 am

the rich man can enter it because he is it.but without the knowledge of knowing that he is it .it consciousness soon turns in to an eventless hell.consciousness without event is existance that has not and does not need to happen.its the creator not the created.only created things need to happen.the richmans situation is this his love of money is eventness.he just cant comprehend to be in the kingdom nonevent heaven.

jackles
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by jackles » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:48 pm

the kingdom of heaven does not move.it is therefor sizeless in any terms.consciousness is therefor the kingdom that does not move.

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Arising_uk
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by Arising_uk » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:32 am

jackles wrote:the kingdom of heaven does not move.it is therefor sizeless in any terms.consciousness is therefor the kingdom that does not move.
The above is a pretty much meaningless but maybe a tautology because you define your 'kingdom of heaven' as 'consciousness' so all you have said is 'consciousness does not move. consciousness is sizeless. consciousness is therefore consciousness that does not move'. So all you've really deduced is P->P which whilst true is trivially true.

jackles
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by jackles » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:15 am

please explain arising me old mate.the formula.

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Arising_uk
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Re: science and the kingdom of heaven

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:24 am

P = "consciousness does not move"
-> = If...Then

Your words basically say P->P or If consciousness does not move Then consciousness does not move. True but trivial.

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