Is the human being purely material.......

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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R2D2
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Is the human being purely material.......

Post by R2D2 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:23 am

Is the human being purely material, or is there an immaterial component? If the human being is purely material, what does that imply about free will? If there is an immaterial component, what does that imply about free will?

uwot
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by uwot » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:37 am

Not so fast R2D2: what is 'material'?

jackles
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by jackles » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:53 pm

material i think could be defined as location.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:18 pm

.




I feel everything is material...including consciousness.






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Image





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jackles
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by jackles » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:26 pm

that could be true in your case bill.feeling and consciousness is the same thing.

R2D2
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by R2D2 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:25 pm

In other words: address the question "are human beings just complicated machines, or is there something more to us" and explain what is implied on both sides of the argument. Don't just give the argument you happen to agree with. Thank you for your thoughts :)

Skip
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by Skip » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:46 am

Why just complicated machines? Why is a naturally evolved 3 and a half billion-year-old mechanism of such mind-boggling complexity that it comes with a bogglable mind as standard equipment somehow less than an airy fairy?
http://www.amazon.com/Are-Our-Brains-Ne ... 0812992962

Ginkgo
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by Ginkgo » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:09 am

R2D2 wrote:In other words: address the question "are human beings just complicated machines, or is there something more to us" and explain what is implied on both sides of the argument. Don't just give the argument you happen to agree with. Thank you for your thoughts :)

A good way to approach this question is from the point of view of the hard and easy problems of consciousness. The easy problem of consciousness says that consciousness has emergent properties. If we build a complex enough computer then it will become conscious. That is to say, exhibit a similar consciousness found in humans. On this basis human brains are seen as nothing more than glorified silicon chips.

The hard problem of consciousness accepts to some extent that humans exhibit similar thinking that is computer like, but say that such an explanation is inadequate and doesn't do justice to the more complex thinking tasks undertaken by humans. Such tasks cannot be explain in terms of a binary computer like system.

Supporters of the hard problem reject the idea that consciousness somehow 'magically' emerges out of complexity (evolved over time). Others go so far as to say that certain properties of consciousness have always existed and come from 'outside' the brain. These are better known as substance dualists.

R2D2
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by R2D2 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:08 am

Thanks again Ginko!

This sounds like Tom Campbell and his Big TOE theory, whom I think makes the most sense.

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HexHammer
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by HexHammer » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:10 pm

R2D2 wrote:Is the human being purely material, or is there an immaterial component? If the human being is purely material, what does that imply about free will? If there is an immaterial component, what does that imply about free will?
In this perspective we don't really have a free will, as we are group thinkers, ofc some stands out of group think and will not follow the group blindly but will either follow others or make their own choises.

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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by Blaggard » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:52 pm

Humans are complicated entirely true but machines denotes they were built which throws up one or two problems:

a) who built them and why

b) if they were built then why are they so shitly constructed?

c) if this so called builder would be able to explain why he made such a horrendous mess of all animals including humans, why on Earth is he trying to act as an apologist for his work by sending in deus ex machinas to wrong us into submission.

d) which then leads to is this blind fool even sentient let alone cognizant of this piss poor reality he supposedly designed and does he even care, or is this just some failed universe he cast off in his omni whatever to go to pot?

e) if he is cognizant of the plight of his own creation, why on Earth or anywhere else would he have done such a piss poor job of designing life.

f) and finally this oddly omni everything guy gets hence right on my chuff if he can't even make a lego brick house properly. Hell house of cards, why bother. ;)

Image

g) what a **** this so called creator must be, although if it's FSM I reserve the right to say he was at least on the right lines, Pastafarianism is of course piratical and correct... ;)

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Arising_uk
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:53 am

R2D2 wrote:Is the human being purely material, or is there an immaterial component? If the human being is purely material, what does that imply about free will? If there is an immaterial component, what does that imply about free will?
Be nice if you actually stated your opinion. As so far all your posts sound like you want others to do your homework.

R2D2
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by R2D2 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:37 pm

Free will is the capacity of consciousness to make choices within an individual's level of self awareness by using their intent. Free will is a necessary characteristic of evolving consciousness structures whose goal is the expansion of knowledge, better alignment, potentiality, and love. Without consciousness, there can be no free will since nothing exists to make a choice. Without free will, consciousness would insist a deterministic ethos. More over, it would have a meaningless process and thence could not evolve by making successful choices.

That being said, free will does not imply that the conscious can do whatever it pleases, it can only choose those derivable from the choices within its decision capacity. It has both internal limitations (such as ego, fear, lack of awareness) and external limitations (such as physics) that constrain what choices are available. It should be emphasized that a choice is made at the being-level of conscious intent; free will choice is generally not an intellectual decision.


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“Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it.”

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HexHammer
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by HexHammer » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:18 am

R2D2 wrote:Free will is the capacity of consciousness to make choices within an individual's level of self awareness by using their intent. Free will is a necessary characteristic of evolving consciousness structures whose goal is the expansion of knowledge, better alignment, potentiality, and love. Without consciousness, there can be no free will since nothing exists to make a choice. Without free will, consciousness would insist a deterministic ethos. More over, it would have a meaningless process and thence could not evolve by making successful choices.

That being said, free will does not imply that the conscious can do whatever it pleases, it can only choose those derivable from the choices within its decision capacity. It has both internal limitations (such as ego, fear, lack of awareness) and external limitations (such as physics) that constrain what choices are available. It should be emphasized that a choice is made at the being-level of conscious intent; free will choice is generally not an intellectual decision.
No, not quite.
You lack the concept of suggestion, a machine has more free will than a human, as it's not victim to suggestion.

Most people don't think electronics has conciousness, but they have indeed low conciousness, as they can analyse and process vast quanteties of data, we have seen self driving cars, only when humans interact it will be involved in accidents.
Chess machines, Quiz machines, etc, most people will confuse awareness solely on the ability to talk, which is a logically phallacy.

uwot
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Re: Is the human being purely material.......

Post by uwot » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:51 am

HexHammer wrote:Most people don't think electronics has conciousness, but they have indeed low conciousness, as they can analyse and process vast quanteties of data,
Pure Babylon nose ants. Actually, HexHammer, for all I know you are right, but if consciousness is simply data processing, is the mechanical computer designed by Charles Babbage conscious?

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