the chicken n egg of consciousness

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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jackles
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the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by jackles » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:40 am

ok what came first .the event.or the consciousness that the event is in.did the event come from consciousnesss or did consciousness come form the event.its one or the other.which ones the objective one.

Skip
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by Skip » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:39 am

Depends on the event, doesn't it?
If the event is like the formation of North America, it came before any kind of consciousness was there to report on it, so it had to happen right outside of consciousness.
If the event is like my father meeting my mother, it came before I was there to be conscious of it, but, obviously, other people were present and aware, and may even have engineered it. But none of them knew the details, or could describe the visuals, or predict the outcome [me] until after the event.

If the event is like me getting an idea, then awareness of the circumstances predates the event, and a consciousness was prerequisite to idea-production. But nobody, not even the only conscious entity in whose mind the event took place, had foreknowledge or control of the idea itself, the event still happened before my consciousness of its particulars.

So, make that: Event first.
1. Something happens. 2. Then we know about it. 3. Then we talk about it. 4. Then we talk about how we know about it. 5. Then we talk about the nature of talking about the knowing. 6. Then it grows tedious.

jackles
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by jackles » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:21 am

ok then skip lets imagine we could see back to the big bang event .the big bang event would then be in our consciousness.but then if the big bang event came first the consciousness thats doing the observation is looking at its creator .(the big bang).so the big bang then created the consciousness that it is in and being viewed by.

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Bernard
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by Bernard » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:34 pm

What makes you think there was a first event in general? Sure, there are first events of anything: universe, man, chicken; but why should there be an over-all first event? Indeed, we have no evidence there was, so it shouldn't be assumed. Neither have have we evidence there is an end to the phenomena in existence. How can there be a beginning to phenomena if there is no boundary to phenomena?

jackles
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by jackles » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:46 pm

something is an event form of nothing.or happen in event terms comes from a rest state of its self.which is never happen.as in happen never realy happened.it was just never happened having an illusion of a happening event.everything is god realy.god dosnt have to happen in event terms.every thing in happening terms is a representation of never happened in happening terms.we are in an event which in terms of god isnt realy happening.cos everything realy is god.

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Bernard
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by Bernard » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:01 am

No no no. If a thing happens it is an event and vice versa. God is happening, never not happening.

jackles
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by jackles » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:12 am

what i mean is god does not move ,and is there for sizeless.but god moves all events ,something that moves has to have size ,that sizelike thing happened.but the sizeless god did not need to happen of its self it allways was.so no matter how big a sizelike thing is it can never exeed its sizeless creator that never will happen.but causes happening events and makes them move in time space god is the relative fact in which objects move in a fictional soup.so god is its self and yet is matter time and space.god is all things but god is fact created things are fiction to that fact.movement is there for fiction.mans consciousness is god the mover.so love moves all and is the feeling in all but is the cause of emotion.

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Bernard
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by Bernard » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:09 am

That is beautifully put jackles and reminds me of indian philosophy somehow. I can't help but reduce dualism in these sentences though, ie: God is sizeless but God moves all events and that something that does such must have size...?

You also say that God is all things, as if there is a limited number of things.

Another way of saying what you say is that existence is at once infinite and finite: finite in the sense that individual things have beginnings and ends, but infinite because the number of things existing are infinite - which has always and will always be the case.

The finite and the infinite are one and the same and neither is more dependant upon the other. They are each other's cause and effect. Infinity is living things living - there is no infinity (God) without living things.

Skip
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by Skip » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:21 am

Or, you could be a snake and sustain yourself on your own tail.

jackles
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by jackles » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:34 am

yeah i know how your seeing it i think.but no thing is an absolute of its self.something which has to be moving always is realy subjective to the real object which is no thing(love).love causes but has no cause.

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Bernard
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by Bernard » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:45 pm

Love is love's cause. And there is no love that is not sourced from within a living being. And there is no ultimate living being projecting ultimate love... Just endless living beings ultimately loving. The absolute is just the reality that finite and infinite are indistinguishable. Loving is creating that reality/consciousness. We are the mystery, we are the lovers and creators of life.

jackles
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Re: the chicken n egg of consciousness

Post by jackles » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:23 pm

yeah what you describe is the mover and the inside and outside of energy.its the one thing presenting its self as a matrix of all things.it is the observer and observered at one in the same timeless moment.the stillness moves .and there is action.

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