Philosophy Now Forum

I don't actually think I feel thoughts, I think I "have" thoughts, or rather, thoughts "occur", but for me, the extent of a thought is the sensation of an internal voice, and following that though, which just, happens, there can be some kind of evaluation, such as another thought, or even the "sensation of pre-empting or priming for action", a kind of feeling of a goal or motivation, depending on the original thought.

I think, like others have said, there can be an initial unconscious lead up to the thought, which maybe this is what you describe as being felt. It's like you are aware of the gears turning in your brain so to speak. Maybe this feeling or sensation is meant to draw our attention towards that unconscious pre-thought. It's almost like an annoying feeling, like when you are trying to remember something but can't quite bring it to mind. I think when we feel this annoying feeling, which is probably the result of the unconscious thought culminating, we feel the need to reduce or remove this annoying feeling, and this focus on it, which results in the thought entering consciousness and resulting in the reduction or removal of the stimulating feeling or activation.

aloysius wrote:When I mentally verbalize a thought, I have a sense it is occurring or is localized in my head. Since the thought I’m having is, in itself, immaterial, how can this be so?

If it is true that electro-chemical activity in the brain gives rise to the thought, perhaps that is what I “feel”. But then, what triggers the electro-chemical activity that gives rise to the thought?

Am I back to the old mind-body problem? Damn.

If you pay attention to whatever unique ideas come your way, you'll find that they appear:

1.) Often, unbidden; having nothing to do with whatever you were thinking or doing when the thought appeared.

2.) Fully formed and complete. The mental verbalization part comes afterward, and is necessary to transfer the thought into your brain.

3.) Thoughts too abstract to put into some form of language are lost. The best you'll be able to do is remember that you understood the lost concept, once upon a time.

This cannot be explained via electrochemical activity and is part of the "hard problem" of consciousness. It can be understood as the activity of a thought-generating entity that is physically distinct from brain, yet interconnected and sharing the same space.

Your curiosity is easily resolved via a modern version of dualism. You might find parts of the "Pure Consciousness" thread informative.
Greylorn

aloysius wrote:When I mentally verbalize a thought, I have a sense it is occurring or is localized in my head. Since the thought I’m having is, in itself, immaterial, how can this be so?

If it is true that electro-chemical activity in the brain gives rise to the thought, perhaps that is what I “feel”. But then, what triggers the electro-chemical activity that gives rise to the thought?

Am I back to the old mind-body problem? Damn.

It is not an electro chemical activity, Most of our thoughts are not coming from us, there is another source you know nothing about.

madera wrote:

aloysius wrote:When I mentally verbalize a thought, I have a sense it is occurring or is localized in my head. Since the thought I’m having is, in itself, immaterial, how can this be so?

If it is true that electro-chemical activity in the brain gives rise to the thought, perhaps that is what I “feel”. But then, what triggers the electro-chemical activity that gives rise to the thought?

Am I back to the old mind-body problem? Damn.

It is not an electro chemical activity, Most of our thoughts are not coming from us, there is another source you know nothing about.

Where are they coming from?

Ginkgo wrote:

madera wrote:

aloysius wrote:When I mentally verbalize a thought, I have a sense it is occurring or is localized in my head. Since the thought I’m having is, in itself, immaterial, how can this be so?

If it is true that electro-chemical activity in the brain gives rise to the thought, perhaps that is what I “feel”. But then, what triggers the electro-chemical activity that gives rise to the thought?

Am I back to the old mind-body problem? Damn.

It is not an electro chemical activity, Most of our thoughts are not coming from us, there is another source you know nothing about.

Where are they coming from?

Beon, the potentially conscious entity described in "Digital Universe -- Analog Soul."
Greylorn

Only if my nervous system creates it. I can't see my thoughts, but I can (hear them) how does that work? Paul

pljamesone@att.net wrote:Only if my nervous system creates it. I can't see my thoughts, but I can (hear them) how does that work? Paul

? You can see the images just as you can hear them expressed in language if you wish. Not everyone 'thinks' in voice.

pljamesone@att.net wrote:Only if my nervous system creates it. I can't see my thoughts, but I can (hear them) how does that work? Paul

Information processing systems do not observe their own actions. I.e. they do not know that they are processing information. Computers and brains are equivalent examples.

You might consider the Cartesian possibility that "you," whatever that means, can only observe thoughts generated by something that is "not you."

The clues lie within your own words. You write "my nervous system," presumably including the entire CNS, brain as well. What mechanism represents the "my," the observer in your comment?

I have asked myself this question before. The problem is, every time i try to feel a thought i get caught up thinking - something we often distinguish between. In some yogic traditions thought is considered a six sense. Thinking just being a different and more subtle kind of feeling just as hearing is different from smell or sight.

While a meditator might claim to be able to refine their consciousness enough to feel the electrochemical processes going on inside, i have not had that experience.

I can say this, there are times when my thinking process is mediated through certain mind states, and these states are accessible to feeling. When i have clarity verses when i am cloudy, when thinking gives me a rush verses when it invites headaches. I would say this is like being submerged in water, and depending on the viscosity of the mind/water, the thoughts will be felt in a particular way.