the medium problem of consciousness

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Advocate
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the medium problem of consciousness

Post by Advocate »

There is no practical difference between the easy and hard problems of consciousness.

easy - explaining the physical systems that give us and other animals the ability to discriminate, integrate information, and so forth

hard - explaining why and how humans have qualia or phenomenal experiences

There are two kinds of "why" questions,;
a) how (neuroscience and anthropology)
b) why - from what intent

The soft problem is obviously "how". But the hard problem is also only "how". There is no intent, there is only the mechanisms by which it is possible and the mechanism by which it is actual. The so-called explanatory gap between qualia and science is a matter of ignorance not intent; how, not why.

There is also the meta-problem of consciousness, which is philosophical - what does the word consciousness refer to? But that's dependant on neuroscience. Please ignore Chalmers' version which only causes additional confusion.

There are only two problems of consciousness;
a) what aspect of reality are we using the word to refer to?
b) how do those aspects physically affect one another?
Last edited by Advocate on Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Skepdick
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Re: the medium problem of consciousness

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:48 pm There is no practical difference between the easy and hard problems of consciousness.
What "problem"?
Advocate
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Re: the medium problem of consciousness

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=610335 time=1669294399 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=610332 time=1669294104 user_id=15238]
There is no practical difference between the easy and hard problems of consciousness.
[/quote]
What "problem"?
[/quote]

How.
Skepdick
Posts: 9734
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: the medium problem of consciousness

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:54 pm
Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:53 pm
Advocate wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:48 pm There is no practical difference between the easy and hard problems of consciousness.
What "problem"?
How.
What 'how problem'?
A problem well-stated is a problem half-solved. --Author Disputed
Dimebag
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:12 am

Re: the medium problem of consciousness

Post by Dimebag »

Advocate wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:48 pm There is no practical difference between the easy and hard problems of consciousness.

easy - explaining the physical systems that give us and other animals the ability to discriminate, integrate information, and so forth

hard - explaining why and how humans have qualia or phenomenal experiences

There are two kinds of "why" questions,;
a) how (neuroscience and anthropology)
b) why - from what intent

The soft problem is obviously "how". But the hard problem is also only "how". There is no intent, there is only the mechanisms by which is possible and the mechanism by which it is actual. The so-called explanatory gap between qualia and science is a matter of ignorance not intent; how, not why.

There is also the meta-problem of consciousness, which is philosophical - what does the word consciousness refer to? But that's dependant on neuroscience. Please ignostic Chalmers' version which only causes additional confusion.

There are only two problems of consciousness;
a) what aspect of reality are we using the word to refer to?
b) how do those aspects physically affect one another?
The why question also boils down to how. The why is, why is there any experience at all? The how would explain how physical systems produce consciousness, it is the same thing.

There is another view. That consciousness isn’t actually anything at all, beyond the physical.

I had an analogy to a game simulation. In a game simulation, that game world is nothing more than one’s and zeros on circuit boards, producing light waves on a monitor. As a world it doesn’t actually exist. It is just a convincing illusion.

Could consciousness be the same? Just electro-chemical signals firing in a squishy brain/body system? No “extra” something produced? An illusion that bootstraps itself into seeming existence.

If it were true, we would then be left with the “meta” problem, that is, why do we think there is a hard problem.

Theory of mind in psychology asserts that our own minds “project” or imagine other organisms (and anything which behaves in sufficiently complex ways) as containing a mind with sentience. Our mind doesn’t actually detect that other mind, it imagines it. At some stage, this same process turns towards our own minds, projecting a kind of self within our own experience. Could this be that moment of bootstrapping, when a mind which projects existence of minds towards itself? The completion of the strange loop.
Advocate
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Re: the medium problem of consciousness

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Dimebag post_id=610726 time=1669497613 user_id=5396]There is another view. That consciousness isn’t actually anything at all, beyond the physical.[/quote]

It is Only physical, but it is not Merely physical. It is an emergent understanding of the physical, greater than we currently possess.
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