How do we get conditioned?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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bahman
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How do we get conditioned?

Post by bahman »

We get conditioned through pattern recognition. Pattern recognition is done through the rewiring of neurons. Initial patterns are what we call instinct.
Last edited by bahman on Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

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Works better if there are rewards/positive outcomes versus negative outcomes, too.
tillingborn
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by tillingborn »

Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:08 pmWorks better if there are rewards/positive outcomes versus negative outcomes, too.
What makes an outcome positive?
Skepdick
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

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tillingborn wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:13 pm What makes an outcome positive?
Human judgment.
tillingborn
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by tillingborn »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:22 pm
tillingborn wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:13 pm What makes an outcome positive?
Human judgment.
Glad to see you're on board. I don't think we have ever disagreed about that.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by Terrapin Station »

tillingborn wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:13 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:08 pmWorks better if there are rewards/positive outcomes versus negative outcomes, too.
What makes an outcome positive?
The person in question likes it.
tillingborn
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by tillingborn »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:25 pm
tillingborn wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:13 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:08 pmWorks better if there are rewards/positive outcomes versus negative outcomes, too.
What makes an outcome positive?
The person in question likes it.
Nailed it.
Dubious
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by Dubious »

tillingborn wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:13 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:08 pmWorks better if there are rewards/positive outcomes versus negative outcomes, too.
What makes an outcome positive?
The pros being in excess of cons. Seldom is there any purity of outcome in what is usually an either/or situation.
Skip
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by Skip »

bahman wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:57 pm We get conditioned through pattern recognition.
What do you mean by 'conditioned'? To believe something? To do something? To accept something?
Pattern recognition is done through the rewiring of neurons.
Pattern recognition is done by a comparison of new input with known data. Only after the similarities have been identified is the new datum classified in a category; only after enough new inputs have been identified as having similar characteristics and therefore belonging to the same category is a pattern recognized. And then - if the category is significant - new neural connections are established. Nothing gets rewired. There are no wires in the brain.
Initial patterns are what we call instinct.
No. there are no "initial patterns" and what we call instinct are very complex thought-patterns that have been established through the many-generations-long survival of our ancestors.
tillingborn
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by tillingborn »

Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:50 am
tillingborn wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:13 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:08 pmWorks better if there are rewards/positive outcomes versus negative outcomes, too.
What makes an outcome positive?
The pros being in excess of cons. Seldom is there any purity of outcome in what is usually an either/or situation.
So how do you judge pros and cons?
Dubious
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by Dubious »

tillingborn wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:01 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:50 am
tillingborn wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:13 pm What makes an outcome positive?
The pros being in excess of cons. Seldom is there any purity of outcome in what is usually an either/or situation.
So how do you judge pros and cons?
Usually by its effect long-term. Short-term can be misleading.
tillingborn
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by tillingborn »

Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:31 am
tillingborn wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:01 amSo how do you judge pros and cons?
Usually by its effect long-term. Short-term can be misleading.
You still need some set of criteria by which to judge pro and con. The point is what are those criteria?
Dubious
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by Dubious »

tillingborn wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:31 am
tillingborn wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:01 amSo how do you judge pros and cons?
Usually by its effect long-term. Short-term can be misleading.
You still need some set of criteria by which to judge pro and con. The point is what are those criteria?
It's up to one's judgement professionally or personally to make that call; analyzing a response to something to determine its possible effect. There is no fixed set of criteria that can be universally applied which is the reason philosophy never came up with any. When you're sick or hospitalized for example, the criteria in treating the problem is choosing what makes you well. Put another way, rheumatic fever can't be treated with a flu shot. If there is a single word that could describe the set of criteria by which to judge the pros and cons I would choose eudaemonia.
tillingborn
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by tillingborn »

Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:00 amIf there is a single word that could describe the set of criteria by which to judge the pros and cons I would choose eudaemonia.
Fair enough, it's just for some a good life is sex and drugs and rock and roll, while for others it's living in a monastery.
Dubious
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Re: How do we get conditioned?

Post by Dubious »

tillingborn wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:16 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:00 amIf there is a single word that could describe the set of criteria by which to judge the pros and cons I would choose eudaemonia.
Fair enough, it's just for some a good life is sex and drugs and rock and roll, while for others it's living in a monastery.
That's right! They decide and chose what makes them contented...for the time being. The criteria for that can change from one day to the next.
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