Everyone is qualia blind

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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AlexW
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Re: Everyone is qualia blind

Post by AlexW » Sat May 16, 2020 5:23 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:45 am
You assume cuz a person has past experiences against which he gauges current experiences that he's somehow hobbled. That is: you believe cuz I know about fire that I'm incapable of experiencin' fire.
I guess we have a different definition for direct experience.
To me, direct experience is simply the non conceptual, raw data that is "received via the senses", not the the conceptual overlay you call "I see fire".
The conceptual overlay contains a subject and objects, it defines processes and relations - whereas direct experience contains none of that.
henry quirk wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:45 am
On-going direct experience, what a person sees, smells, hears, tactilely feels, tastes, informs that dynamic catalog you call acquired knowledge. Acquired knowledge allows a person to more keenly judge what he apprehends directly (the fire he sees, smells, feels, and hears also burns so he should take care).
Sure, agree.
henry quirk wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:45 am
No, the bed, the house, the land, the planet, the Sol system, the Milky Way, the local cluster, and on and on: all real.
Again, this depends how you define real.
To me, the border between real and made/thought up is direct experience - direct experience is real, whatever thought/knowledge makes of it is conceptual - thus, ultimately, not real.
And, yes, sure, conceptual interpretations are based on direct experience, but they are not it! They are a finger pointing at the moon.
henry quirk wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:45 am
I can't see the interior of an atom either, but I know it's there. In this marvelous age, we have machines that extend our senses, and machines that supplement our thinkin' & reasonin'.
Yet... modern science is not certain at all if "atoms" are not only a convenient interpretation of something that is not physical at all...
henry quirk wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:45 am
I, for my part, like to base my interpretations on what I actually see, hear, smell, taste and feel

Not surprisin', not remarkable: we all do that.
Maybe initially, but now, as an adult, you base your interpretations pretty much only on acquired knowledge, not on direct experience anymore.

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henry quirk
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Alex

Post by henry quirk » Sat May 16, 2020 8:35 pm

I was havin' déjà vu, with good reason...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25568

...neither of us (nor any of the other participants) have shifted position since then.

AlexW
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:53 am

Re: Everyone is qualia blind

Post by AlexW » Sun May 17, 2020 1:09 am

Haha... at least we’re consistent

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henry quirk
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Re: Everyone is qualia blind

Post by henry quirk » Sun May 17, 2020 1:52 am

AlexW wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:09 am
Haha... at least we’re consistent
Mules: all of us.

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