Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:51 am

Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:16 am

From the same source as the OP:

Q: So you do not uphold the theory of rebirth?

A: No. On the other hand I want to remove your confusion that you will be reborn. It is you who think that you will be reborn.
See for whom the question arises. Unless the questioner is found, such questions can never finally be answered.
Very good.

A question can only arise when there is the apparent self arising contradiction known as the identification with a separate self. Which in and of itself is only an artificially imagined concept...aka dualistic thinking.

The paradox is unavoidable as ''concepts'' in and of themselves are ''temporal appearances'' only.

A coin always "appears to be"
either 100% "heads" or 100% "tails",
but in reality, it is actually always
both 100% "heads" AND 100% "tails" simultaneously.

All ''appearances'' ARE of the ABSOLUTE. The only ONE.


Your own concept of "I" is an illusion of duality which is Nondual.



.

Walker
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Walker » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:51 am
A coin always "appears to be"
either 100% "heads" or 100% "tails",
but in reality, it is actually always
both 100% "heads" AND 100% "tails" simultaneously.
Here in this quote, reality is that which never comes and never goes, but is ever-present. Delusion is what is here today and gone tomorrow. Finding what is ever-present presents a challenge to logic in a world where everything changes, and is the crux of Advaita Vedanta.

Age
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Age » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:57 am

Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:51 am
A coin always "appears to be"
either 100% "heads" or 100% "tails",
but in reality, it is actually always
both 100% "heads" AND 100% "tails" simultaneously.
Here in this quote, reality is that which never comes and never goes, but is ever-present. Delusion is what is here today and gone tomorrow. Finding what is ever-present presents a challenge to logic in a world where everything changes, and is the crux of Advaita Vedanta.
Being able to look and see from the 'ever-present', then there is no challenge in knowing and BE-ing thee ever-present.

Walker
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Walker » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:59 am

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:57 am
Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:51 am
A coin always "appears to be"
either 100% "heads" or 100% "tails",
but in reality, it is actually always
both 100% "heads" AND 100% "tails" simultaneously.
Here in this quote, reality is that which never comes and never goes, but is ever-present. Delusion is what is here today and gone tomorrow. Finding what is ever-present presents a challenge to logic in a world where everything changes, and is the crux of Advaita Vedanta.
Being able to look and see from the 'ever-present', then there is no challenge in knowing and BE-ing thee ever-present.
Circumstances may require stating a vision of the future through the reality of observed past process.

Chauncy explains:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgGvd1UPZ88

:wink:

Some of Kosiński's other books can be disturbing insights into human nature.

Age
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Age » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:38 am

Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:59 am
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:57 am
Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 am

Here in this quote, reality is that which never comes and never goes, but is ever-present. Delusion is what is here today and gone tomorrow. Finding what is ever-present presents a challenge to logic in a world where everything changes, and is the crux of Advaita Vedanta.
Being able to look and see from the 'ever-present', then there is no challenge in knowing and BE-ing thee ever-present.
Circumstances may require stating a vision of the future through the reality of observed past process.
If you say so. But how do you think I arrived at what I said above?

Obviously I only know of that outcome, and stated it, because of the previous past experiences that I have already had. It was not a vision of the future, but an expression of observed past processes.
Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:59 am
Chauncy explains:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgGvd1UPZ88

:wink:
This was only about money and just the earth, which are both very insignificant things compared to the ever-present, and obviously one of them is far more and completely insignificant compared to the other one.
Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:59 am
Some of Kosiński's other books can be disturbing insights into human nature.
I do not know what insights there about human nature, but, from my perspective, the only "nature" that separates the human being from every other known animal is human beings have the ability to learn, understand, and reason (absolutely any and every thing). No other known animal has this ability.

Other than this, human beings are naturally just like every other animal is, needing just a very few things to keep living.

Only the One ever-present thing exists forever.

Every thing that comes into existence, exists, and then exits, is just an incarnation of the ever-present. None of these things reincarnate. Only the ever-present is in constant incarnation, and thus re-incarnating ever-presently.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:38 am

Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:51 am
A coin always "appears to be"
either 100% "heads" or 100% "tails",
but in reality, it is actually always
both 100% "heads" AND 100% "tails" simultaneously.
Here in this quote, reality is that which never comes and never goes, but is ever-present. Delusion is what is here today and gone tomorrow. Finding what is ever-present presents a challenge to logic in a world where everything changes, and is the crux of Advaita Vedanta.
Yes I agree Walker.

Because it's a challenging dilemma for the ''mind'' aka the delusional sense of self to discover the apparent but illusory past and present from which any self referential point is observed - IS the ever-present which is ever unchanging and unmoving.

.

Age
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Age » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:38 am
Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:51 am
A coin always "appears to be"
either 100% "heads" or 100% "tails",
but in reality, it is actually always
both 100% "heads" AND 100% "tails" simultaneously.
Here in this quote, reality is that which never comes and never goes, but is ever-present. Delusion is what is here today and gone tomorrow. Finding what is ever-present presents a challenge to logic in a world where everything changes, and is the crux of Advaita Vedanta.
Yes I agree Walker.

Because it's a challenging dilemma for the ''mind'' aka the delusional sense of self to discover the apparent but illusory past and present from which any self referential point is observed - IS the ever-present which is ever unchanging and unmoving.

.
To assume that there is some "mind" of a human being or of some self is a delusion, which helps in preventing the ever-present from becoming known for what It Truly IS.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:22 am

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:38 am
Walker wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 am

Here in this quote, reality is that which never comes and never goes, but is ever-present. Delusion is what is here today and gone tomorrow. Finding what is ever-present presents a challenge to logic in a world where everything changes, and is the crux of Advaita Vedanta.
Yes I agree Walker.

Because it's a challenging dilemma for the ''mind'' aka the delusional sense of self to discover the apparent but illusory past and present from which any self referential point is observed - IS the ever-present which is ever unchanging and unmoving.

.
To assume that there is some "mind" of a human being or of some self is a delusion, which helps in preventing the ever-present from becoming known for what It Truly IS.
Any apparent assumption of a 'human mind' is a movement, aka activity observed. It's a movement within the ever stillness of awareness.
There is no possibility for the mind to still the mind, and so once it is recognised that what you are is the still silent awareness that sees the mind and it's activities going on, then it is also recognised that there is no need to still the mind.

The ever present truly IS the ever present unmoving unchanging backlight upon which all things come and go.

.

Age
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Age » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:02 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:22 am
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:38 am


Yes I agree Walker.

Because it's a challenging dilemma for the ''mind'' aka the delusional sense of self to discover the apparent but illusory past and present from which any self referential point is observed - IS the ever-present which is ever unchanging and unmoving.

.
To assume that there is some "mind" of a human being or of some self is a delusion, which helps in preventing the ever-present from becoming known for what It Truly IS.
Any apparent assumption of a 'human mind' is a movement, aka activity observed.
And an obviously WRONG observed activity.

So, why do you make obviously WRONG observations?
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:22 am
It's a movement within the ever stillness of awareness.
And that assumption, which is a movement, is obviously a WRONG assumption.

So, that WRONG assumption and WRONG movement, along with absolutely every thing else in the Universe, is within the ever stillness of Awareness.

Therefore, there is NO need to say what is obviously already OBVIOUS to Awareness.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:22 am
There is no possibility for the mind to still the mind, and so once it is recognised that what you are is the still silent awareness that sees the mind
Are you really this BLIND?

It is NOT I that sees some personal "mind". It is 'you' who sees the "mind". Just LOOK AT the words 'you' use.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:22 am
and it's activities going on, then it is also recognised that there is no need to still the mind.
There is NO personal "mind" to still.

Are 'you' so STUCK in your own beliefs that you really can NOT see what I am actually writing and saying?
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:22 am
The ever present truly IS the ever present unmoving unchanging backlight upon which all things come and go.

.
And the ever-present, as well as ALL other things already have actual names that when used properly and correctly, will explain ALL-OF-THIS to illustrate and show the big and whole True picture of Life, Itself.

Walker
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Walker » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:31 pm

From the same source as the OP:

Q: I can understand that the outstanding events in a man’s life, such as his country, nationality, family, career or profession, marriage, death, etc., are all predestined by his karma, but can it be that all the details of his life, down to the minutest, have already been determined? Now, for instance, I put this fan that is in my hand down on the floor here. Can it be that it was already decided that on such and such a day, at such and such an hour, I should move the fan like this and put it down here?

A: Certainly. Whatever this body is to do and whatever experiences it is to pass through was already decided when it came into existence.

AlexW
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by AlexW » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:59 am

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 am
To assume that there is some "mind" of a human being or of some self is a delusion, ...
Agree.
Can you think of something that is not a delusion? If so, can you please let me know?
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 am
..., which helps in preventing the ever-present from becoming known for what It Truly IS.
Is the "ever-present" a thing that can be know?

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Sculptor
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Sculptor » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:02 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:11 am
Q: How long does it take a man to be reborn after death? Is it immediately after death or some time later?

Ramana Maharshi: You do not know what you were before birth, yet you want to know what you will be after death. Do you know what you are now?
Birth and rebirth pertain to the body. You are identifying the Self with the body. It is a wrong identification. You believe that the body has been born and will die, and confound the phenomena relating to the body with the Self. Know your real being and these questions will not arise.
Births and rebirths are mentioned only to make you investigate the question and find out that there are neither births nor rebirths. They relate to the body and not to the Self. Know the Self and don't be perturbed by doubts.
-----
Q: Do not one's actions affect the person in later births?

Ramana Maharshi: Are you born now? Why do you think of other births? The fact is that there is neither birth nor death. Let him who is born think of death and palliatives for it.
-----
Q: What happens to a person after death?

Ramana Maharshi: Engage yourself in the living present. The future will take care of itself. Do not worry about the future. The state before creation and the process of creation are dealt with in the scriptures in order that you may know the present. Because you say you are born, therefore they say, yes, and add that God created you.
But do you see God or anything else in your sleep? If God is real, why does he not shine forth in your sleep also? You always are, you are the same now as you were in sleep. You are not different from that one in sleep. But why should there be differences in the feelings or experiences of the two states?
Did you ask, while asleep, questions regarding your birth? Did you then ask 'Where do I go after death?' Why think of all these questions now in the waking state? Let what is born think of its birth and the remedy, its cause and ultimate results.


Sri Ramana Maharshi
Purveyors of the reincarnation myth so often have a shocking poor understanding of how consciousness, memory and identity are generated by the brain.
It only takes five minutes in an old people's ward, or spending time with a person that has had a stroke, or head injury to know that the chances of any kind of meaningful re-incarnation is zero.
All we are and all we amount to is sustained by a healthy brain.
There is nothing beyond this.

Age
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Re: Reincarnation. Who or what would reincarnate? (explained)

Post by Age » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:01 pm

AlexW wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:59 am
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 am
To assume that there is some "mind" of a human being or of some self is a delusion, ...
Agree.
Can you think of something that is not a delusion?
Yes.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 am
If so, can you please let me know?
Okay.

I already have.
AlexW wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:59 am
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 am
..., which helps in preventing the ever-present from becoming known for what It Truly IS.
Is the "ever-present" a thing that can be know?
Yes, extremely easily and simply.

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