Cartesian dualism

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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SteveKlinko
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:07 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:32 pm
I insist that I can Experience Sound without describing it with Words. In fact it is not true that you can even actually describe a Sound with Words. Describe the Experience of the Standard A Tone with Words.
Steve, I'm talking about the actual 'Knower' of the experience of sound. I'm not talking about describing the experience of sound which would require knowledge which is just sound heard as words.

Maybe I'm not explaining this very well, it's difficult, but I'll keep trying.
Forget about describing an experience. I'm asking how is having an experience known, and by whom or what?.. what knows it is having the experience of sound?
You say I ...but isn't I just another word? albeit a one lettered word.

If you insist on being able to experience sound without descibing it in words, then tell me without using words how it is known that there is the experience of sound ?...just what is it that KNOWS it is experiencing the experience of sound? can it be possible to know who or what is experiencing sound without the knowledge of said experience present? so what or who is knowing the knowledge of the said experience? and how could it be known without knowledge which is sound heard as words.

'' I insist that I can Experience Sound without describing it with Words '' is still a CLAIM.

What is knowing it is making a claim to know it is experiencing sound without having to describe it in words?

This goes deeper than just saying the ''I'' knows, and that's bascially all I'm trying to get at here.

Thanks for your patience.

.

.

PS, remember, animals don't possess knowledge that is unique to the human which is just another form of animal, if the other animals did possess knowledge, then surely they would be plotting to do all kinds of dastardly deeds. Then we'd really need to be watching our backs.

Animals know without knowing they know, so what is this knowledge that human animals seem to possess that other animals don't have. If everything in life is functioning without a mind that knows that it knows,then what is this mind that knows itself that is unique to human? isn't that just knowledge, aka sound heard as words?

.

Notice also that animals are always listening to sound, and is how they navigate and understand their world and is how they learn to survive in it.

.
When I say I there is an assumption that we each are some kind of I. I is not just a word but rather it is the only way we can refer to something like the Conscious Self which is a real thing in the Universe. But the question remains: Exactly what is that Standard A Toneness that we all can Experience but can not Explain?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:22 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 pm
When I say I there is an assumption that we each are some kind of I.



I is not just a word but rather it is the only way we can refer to something like the Conscious Self which is a real thing in the Universe.
No thing can refer to some thing without using a word...otherwise what exactly is being referred to here? Can no thing be pointed to without making it some thing?

The I is another word for Consciousness it's Real and the Real remains untouched.

The Light that appears as the word Consciousness is made out of the same Light.

Words are just 'thoughts' which are illusions of light as subtle sound heard as Words. Any situation, circumstance, action, conversation, shape, form and colour are thoughts.This signifies that life is an auditory and optical illusion of Light.

How can Light be explained?

No thing can see or know Light because no thing is Light the only seeing and knowing there is.

There is no actual thing in the word thing. All things are known by no thing.

A gap in understanding SELF is artificially created when there is a claim that the knower is known..when in truth the knower is Untouched, the untouched makes no claim of any author or copyright .

Source aka infinity has no owner.

Source cannot be negated nor refuted. Source is now there is no other now.

.

.

SteveKlinko
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:03 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:22 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 pm
When I say I there is an assumption that we each are some kind of I.



I is not just a word but rather it is the only way we can refer to something like the Conscious Self which is a real thing in the Universe.
No thing can refer to some thing without using a word...otherwise what exactly is being referred to here? Can no thing be pointed to without making it some thing?

The I is another word for Consciousness it's Real and the Real remains untouched.

The Light that appears as the word Consciousness is made out of the same Light.

Words are just 'thoughts' which are illusions of light as subtle sound heard as Words. Any situation, circumstance, action, conversation, shape, form and colour are thoughts.This signifies that life is an auditory and optical illusion of Light.

How can Light be explained?

No thing can see or know Light because no thing is Light the only seeing and knowing there is.

There is no actual thing in the word thing. All things are known by no thing.

A gap in understanding SELF is artificially created when there is a claim that the knower is known..when in truth the knower is Untouched, the untouched makes no claim of any author or copyright .

Source aka infinity has no owner.

Source cannot be negated nor refuted. Source is now there is no other now.

.

.
How can Light be Explained? Not Electromagnetic Energy but the Light that we Experience. That's the question of the century.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:24 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:03 pm
How can Light be Explained? Not Electromagnetic Energy but the Light that we Experience. That's the question of the century.
Light cannot be Explained.

You are the Light that cannot be Explained.

Explanations belong in the realm of separation the dream of otherness, the story of i when worlds are born via imagination.

Only the mind is born not YOU...YOU are the awareness in which the whole dream of you, aka story of you arises and falls.

You cannot experience YOU...because there is only YOU...EXPERIENCING YOU IS THE DREAM OF SEPARATION, albeit an illusory separation.

There is no explanatory gap between you and what you experience. Except in this conception no one aka the mind is making.

.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:41 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:03 pm
How can Light be Explained? Not Electromagnetic Energy but the Light that we Experience. That's the question of the century.
''We'' don't experience Light. We ARE the experiencing LIGHT as and through constrasting colour as the projection of invisible white light from which all things are known as conceptually conceived in this conception (the world of thoughts)
Consciousness: a well-known synonym for many other things.

The question of the century is the ONE QUESTION to all our answers.

Why, because Consciousness trying to confine itself to a conceptual format would be like light trying to shine on itself.

"Consciousness" is the label that "what-ever-it-is" aka PURE ISNESS gives to itself and in so doing it creates another conceptualised object that it mistakes for a separate existential entity.It then tries to define this objectified entity by using other labels.
When it's covers are pulled........there is nothing left.

.

SteveKlinko
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:34 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:41 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:03 pm
How can Light be Explained? Not Electromagnetic Energy but the Light that we Experience. That's the question of the century.
''We'' don't experience Light. We ARE the experiencing LIGHT as and through constrasting colour as the projection of invisible white light from which all things are known as conceptually conceived in this conception (the world of thoughts)
Consciousness: a well-known synonym for many other things.

The question of the century is the ONE QUESTION to all our answers.

Why, because Consciousness trying to confine itself to a conceptual format would be like light trying to shine on itself.

"Consciousness" is the label that "what-ever-it-is" aka PURE ISNESS gives to itself and in so doing it creates another conceptualised object that it mistakes for a separate existential entity.It then tries to define this objectified entity by using other labels.
When it's covers are pulled........there is nothing left.

.
I know I am Light but I don't know How I could be Light. Big Explanatory Gap.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:57 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:34 pm
I know I am Light but I don't know How I could be Light. Big Explanatory Gap.
Light is a concept known by no conceptually known thing, because things are known, and the known know nothing.

No thing is conceptualising itself into being, except as this knowledge believed by no thing other than the known thing itself which knows no thing...aka the only knowing there is and you are that ONE as you conceive yourself to be aka as a concept known.

Light doesn't know it's being light because it can only be it as conceived by it alone. There are no why's or how's regarding the obvious ISNESS of being, there's just the ISNESS of being. Reality never questions itself, that only comes from the illusory sense of separation...the knowledge of being, aka a belief.

You can ask yourself how or why you are being for ever and no answer will ever come because you'd have to strip down to the bare essence core of being itself ...which on deep introspection there is found to be nothing there.

.

SteveKlinko
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:30 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:57 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:34 pm
I know I am Light but I don't know How I could be Light. Big Explanatory Gap.
Light is a concept known by no conceptually known thing, because things are known, and the known know nothing.

No thing is conceptualising itself into being, except as this knowledge believed by no thing other than the known thing itself which knows no thing...aka the only knowing there is and you are that ONE as you conceive yourself to be aka as a concept known.

Light doesn't know it's being light because it can only be it as conceived by it alone. There are no why's or how's regarding the obvious ISNESS of being, there's just the ISNESS of being. Reality never questions itself, that only comes from the illusory sense of separation...the knowledge of being, aka a belief.

You can ask yourself how or why you are being for ever and no answer will ever come because you'd have to strip down to the bare essence core of being itself ...which on deep introspection there is found to be nothing there.

.
If there is nothing there then I want to understand that. I don't understand that. Introspection has helped me understand many things but it has not shown me that I am nothing. But I'll keep trying.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:03 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:30 pm
If there is nothing there then I want to understand that. I don't understand that. Introspection has helped me understand many things but it has not shown me that I am nothing. But I'll keep trying.
All I can say is thanks for staying on board with this topic subject.

The word ''nothing'' is not as it seems, it's not what thought thinks it is.

Nothing or no thing or not a thing ...is not nothing per se, because there is no such thing as nothing ...no thing is still a thing...it's the empty screen on which fullness is revealed. It's the container of all contents.

Nothing cannot be but can be compared to everything which is actually not-a-thing being every thing.

It is here that you begin to recognise that what is and what you are is one and you spontaneously know that what you are is imperishable.

Imperishable not-a-thing presence in which every thing comes and goes.

For a thing to come and go, it has to come and go in some thing, or from some thing...well that's what oneness means, it means every thing comes from itself only, in and of itself ..the only source there is.

And that source is right here now the only place there is. There is no other source/place but here. This it it. You are IT

SteveKlinko
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:49 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:03 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:30 pm
If there is nothing there then I want to understand that. I don't understand that. Introspection has helped me understand many things but it has not shown me that I am nothing. But I'll keep trying.
All I can say is thanks for staying on board with this topic subject.

The word ''nothing'' is not as it seems, it's not what thought thinks it is.

Nothing or no thing or not a thing ...is not nothing per se, because there is no such thing as nothing ...no thing is still a thing...it's the empty screen on which fullness is revealed. It's the container of all contents.

Nothing cannot be but can be compared to everything which is actually not-a-thing being every thing.

It is here that you begin to recognise that what is and what you are is one and you spontaneously know that what you are is imperishable.

Imperishable not-a-thing presence in which every thing comes and goes.

For a thing to come and go, it has to come and go in some thing, or from some thing...well that's what oneness means, it means every thing comes from itself only, in and of itself ..the only source there is.

And that source is right here now the only place there is. There is no other source/place but here. This it it. You are IT
You're welcome. I actually do know what you are trying to say. I just don't see it, at least for now, as the Reality of the Universe that I am in.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Cartesian dualism

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:41 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:49 pm
You're welcome. I actually do know what you are trying to say. I just don't see it, at least for now, as the Reality of the Universe that I am in.
Well of course you can only know what ever it is you are trying to know as and through the unique lens of you're own perception anyway.

You can only know what has entered your awareness as and when that knowledge arises, also know that what is not-known will eventually become known, but what is unknowable can never be known.

Of course if you resonate with anything I'm saying then it'll seem like we're singing from the same hymn sheet, but there is no requirement to do so. The truth is always within you, and you alone. Knocking on the door of truth, the door opens and there is it, the realisation that you have always been knocking from the inside, you are never excluded from knowing, nothing is ever hidden from you, it is all you, hidden in plain sight.

.

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