The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:05 pm

“… in the stillness of the mind I saw myself as I am — unbound …”

This is probably one of my favorite quotes ever.

What I think about when I witness my self between thoughts, is that I have two selves, one is the empty unbounded untouched self, and the other is identified ego self full of self conscious tension.

One self is craving all the attention and drama, while the other self looks on in detachment allowing the drama to unfold as it so desires without being tarnished or defaced by the drama. These two selves are inseparably one in the same moment, but the drama queen self seems to be unaware of the other self until it does realise it's there, and it is in that moment that the immortal self is born. So even amid the chaos that can be life, there is a place of perfect peace to RIP when ever it is required.

.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:41 pm

.





You've consistently tapped into something that is dynamic and authentic to you.

Glad our paths have crossed here.


Thank you for articulating a major theme within my own life. And thank you for repeatedly doing this in consistently different ways.


I think you speak from a point of true philosophy.





Have you ever shared your life's journey as a literal landscape?







.

Walker
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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:18 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:05 pm
“… in the stillness of the mind I saw myself as I am — unbound …”
I can't find the source.
Do you know where it's from?

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Greta
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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Greta » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:28 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:05 pm
“… in the stillness of the mind I saw myself as I am — unbound …”

This is probably one of my favorite quotes ever.

What I think about when I witness my self between thoughts, is that I have two selves, one is the empty unbounded untouched self, and the other is identified ego self full of self conscious tension.

One self is craving all the attention and drama, while the other self looks on in detachment allowing the drama to unfold as it so desires without being tarnished or defaced by the drama. These two selves are inseparably one in the same moment, but the drama queen self seems to be unaware of the other self until it does realise it's there, and it is in that moment that the immortal self is born. So even amid the chaos that can be life, there is a place of perfect peace to RIP when ever it is required.
This reminds me of Jill Bolte Taylor's incredible TED Talk about insights gained during a stroke that harmed her brain's left hemisphere. At the end of the video her conclusion is very close to the ideas expressed above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU&t=129s

Many here (and JBT) give the impression that the unity consciousness of the right hemisphere is qualitatively superior to the rational analytical thought of the left hemisphere. I personally value each, that rational analytical ideation is beautiful in its own way, just different to the unbounded visceral present moment.


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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Greta » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:52 am

Actually hemispheric difference is not a myth:
The left side of the brain is responsible for controlling the right side of the body. It also performs tasks that have to do with logic, such as in science and mathematics. On the other hand, the right hemisphere coordinates the left side of the body, and performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts. Both hemispheres are connected by the corpus callosum and serve the body in different ways .
The "myth" is the idea of hemispheric dominance, not difference. The claim that we are "right brained" or "left brained" is untrue, but not differences in each hemisphere's functions.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:20 am

Greta wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:52 am
Actually hemispheric difference is not a myth:
The left side of the brain is responsible for controlling the right side of the body. It also performs tasks that have to do with logic, such as in science and mathematics. On the other hand, the right hemisphere coordinates the left side of the body, and performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts. Both hemispheres are connected by the corpus callosum and serve the body in different ways .
The "myth" is the idea of hemispheric dominance, not difference. The claim that we are "right brained" or "left brained" is untrue, but not differences in each hemisphere's functions.
Of course different functions are controlled by different parts of the brain, but there is no 'analytical hemisphere' or 'creative hemisphere'.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:28 am

Walker wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:18 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:05 pm
“… in the stillness of the mind I saw myself as I am — unbound …”
I can't find the source.
Do you know where it's from?
Yeah sorry, it's from here ....https://www.stillnessspeaks.com/teacher ... a-maharaj/

I like how this article points to the fact that this eternal unborn self can be found immediately here now and it is who you are, you don't even have to follow any particular course of breathing, or meditation, or study of scriptures. It's just your natural state right now that is with you always. It's not even with you, it is you.

I knew this instinctively from a small child, so on reflection at how this all came so natural to me makes me believe in the idea of old souls that have been around the block a few times.

I had a hard time growing up relating to adult people because I could never understand why they behaved so aggressively to each other. It often seemed like their lives were just chaotic most of the time full of stress and worry, and all I could think about was hey it doesn't have to be like that. So my own life has been a little chaotic too having witnessed the chaos in people who have been close to me personally, so I've indirectly got involved with the chaos myself.

I had to walk away from it all, I deliberately and consciously chose the serenity of living the solitude mind-set, not the lonely alone-ness of isolation from the world, I still interact with the world, because I have a large family to think about, so I'm talking about the internal solitude where nothing bothers me anymore not even poverty, illness or death..or anything at all, I got rid of all my material possessions so more energy could flow through my house which I now own. So my life is permanent bliss everyday the way it's meant to be. I want nothing and lack nothing. My house is falling to bits like they do, and the interior is like something out of the stone age, but I don't care about that either. I'm not the money pit kind of person. Just basic shelter, food and warmth, and a nice cosy bed to sleep in, and that's it.

.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:23 pm

Greta wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:28 am
This reminds me of Jill Bolte Taylor's incredible TED Talk about insights gained during a stroke that harmed her brain's left hemisphere. At the end of the video her conclusion is very close to the ideas expressed above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU&t=129s
Yeah, I saw this video, and lucky she was a brain scientist herself, as she seemed to keep her cool during the whole episode. Something like that would have freaked me out, I once left my body one night falling asleep, and it scared the heck out of me, I quickly made myself jolt back into my body ..because I remember the feeling of free-falling through space totally weightless, it's was so weird, I felt like I'd lost control, but then realised we are not in control of anything, we only think we are. But yeah good video about the two hemispheres appearing to be two selves, so thanks for posting the inspiring video.
Greta wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:28 am
Many here (and JBT) give the impression that the unity consciousness of the right hemisphere is qualitatively superior to the rational analytical thought of the left hemisphere. I personally value each, that rational analytical ideation is beautiful in its own way, just different to the unbounded visceral present moment.
Bruce Lipton described the two selves as one being the natural program that functions on automatic pilot, in that there is something driving the vehicle that is the human body without conscious awareness it is being driven, and that something is not inside the body, there is no person inside the body ..so the entity that is believed to be inside the body, is a phantom too...two, but not two, because how can there be two lifeS?
LIFE is a VERB. There is no one to stick an S on the end of LIFE. There is only LIFE.

So the ghost in the machine self you believe to be your name your parents gave you, is the man-made program, aka the matrix, the reality that has been unknowingly on your part been programmed into you from birth which is not your natural program.

But all this can get a bit complicated I know, but we have to be allowed to think for ourselves and not be told how to think.And that's what I believe we are here in reality to learn to do, we are here to learn about self, including all the experiences that goes with having a self. He also talked about the idea of each of our selves is a unique mini universe in and of itself, a hologram of the one whole undivided universe, kind of like the seed of the original parent. And that this is probably why humans clash with other humans because we are all living in our own unique realities that are so very different. We just have to learn to know that and respect each universe is experiencing what has been assigned to that particular universe according to their frequency that they are vibrating at.

Human belief systems are all unique , there are so many different ideas, it's hard to know what to believe about anything really, so it seems the imagination that is the human consciousness can divide itself up into multiple dimensions while all co-existing in the same space, talk about entanglement..it's no wonder chaos ensues, but it really is all good though, it's what makes life so rich and diverse, and while all this thinking is going on, there's the silent witness part of our self silently looking on in complete detachment. The movie of life is a mad play, while the screen upon which it appears allows it all to unfold without ever getting involved.

Oh god, don't get me going on this subject, I won't be able to stop, sorry I get a bit carried away, but do feel free to add more content, thanks.

.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:55 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:41 pm
.





You've consistently tapped into something that is dynamic and authentic to you.

Glad our paths have crossed here.


Thank you for articulating a major theme within my own life. And thank you for repeatedly doing this in consistently different ways.


I think you speak from a point of true philosophy.


Thanks Bill, from self to self.

For human consciousness, it kind of goes like this in the image below, but then it's not even a need. We don't need anything, we are everything. It's just that we forget that. That is until we awaken from the stupor of separation where neediness is rife, into the realisation that we are always and ever complete wholeness in every moment, and the clarity we seek is what's already looking. Awakening being a conceptual process, since religion taught us that we are in sleep so that in order to know our true self we had to awaken from that sleep into the realisation we are both the dreamer and the dream character within the dream...we are the awareness in which the whole dream is arising, we see that no one ever awakens, in that everything is already wide awake right here and now shining as you as this ever awake witness of yourself.

You can't die because there is no one in you. You are the light looking at yourself.

Image





Bill Wiltrack wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:41 pm
Have you ever shared your life's journey as a literal landscape?
What do you mean by that Bill?

.

Walker
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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:18 pm

I looked around.

I Am That, Talks with Stri Nisargadatta Maharaj, is available online, a free pdf file.
http://www.anandavala.info/miscl/I_Am_That.pdf

In the same dialogue just before your quotation, in Chapter 48 Awareness is Free, he says.

“The same power that makes the fire burn and the water flow, the seeds sprout and the trees grow, makes me answer your questions. There is nothing personal about me, though the lan-guage and the style may appear personal. A person is a set pat-tern of desires and thoughts and resulting actions; there is no such pattern in my case. There is nothing I desire or fear — how can there be a pattern?”

He is bound to “the power.”

*
DAM wrote:I had to walk away from it all, I deliberately and consciously chose the serenity of living the solitude mind-set, not the lonely alone-ness of isolation from the world, I still interact with the world, because I have a large family to think about, so I'm talking about the internal solitude where nothing bothers me anymore not even poverty, illness or death..or anything at all, I got rid of all my material possessions so more energy could flow through my house which I now own. So my life is permanent bliss everyday the way it's meant to be. I want nothing and lack nothing. My house is falling to bits like they do, and the interior is like something out of the stone age, but I don't care about that either. I'm not the money pit kind of person. Just basic shelter, food and warmth, and a nice cosy bed to sleep in, and that's it.
I did a word search on “think” in I Am That, (from your reference to thinking).

After reading one of the search results, this was the next question and answer.

Q: Don’t you become completely irresponsible?
M: How could I? How can I hurt something which is one with me. On the contrary, without thinking of the world, whatever I do will be of benefit to it. Just as the body sets itself right uncon-sciously, so am I ceaselessly active in setting the world right.


Obviously, Sri Nisargadatta defines irresponsible as hurting something.
He defines words in relation to life and living.

The dialogues are brilliant.

*

Re: chaos and aggression:

Here are images of an enlightened being in the world.
Not a frozen Buddha.

Sri Nisargadatta sometimes had an aggressive style of speaking that would earn PC frowns today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEcIO4sAvuE

(edited to add a new pdf link)
Last edited by Walker on Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:44 am

Walker wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:18 pm
I looked around.

I Am That, Talks with Stri Nisargadatta Maharaj, is available online, a free pdf file.
https://advaita.com.br/wp-content/uploa ... Resumo.pdf

In the same dialogue just before your quotation, in Chapter 48 Awareness is Free, he says.

“The same power that makes the fire burn and the water flow, the seeds sprout and the trees grow, makes me answer your questions. There is nothing personal about me, though the lan-guage and the style may appear personal. A person is a set pat-tern of desires and thoughts and resulting actions; there is no such pattern in my case. There is nothing I desire or fear — how can there be a pattern?”

He is bound to “the power.”
There are a ton of esoteric discourses and nonduality books now free online. Haven't read I AM That, but seen many quotes sourced from that book. Thanks for the quote. There's no one in power and that's the only true power there is. How's that for power?

What can the human mind do with the thought there is no one home? It makes one up of course, this free awareness is what I call the blank canvas on which it paints it's dreams. It's nothing dreaming it is everything.

The moment I realised I'd made my personal self up, I immediately stopped thinking about that personal self and in the exact same moment a huge vast space opened up for me, it engulfed the entire idea I had about myself.. I just completely disappeared, and then quite spontaneously another thought came streaming in informing me there was never any such thing as a personal self except the idea in the awareness I was already being. Then I realised I Am this free awareness only.

So all that was left was this wholeness, the one without a second. I remember the feeling was like drinking the whole ocean in one gulp, I could hardly contain it, it actually took my breath away so much that I thought I was going to go unconscious - it was the most incredible feeling of pure love I'd ever had in my life. I know some people use drugs to induce this feeling, but I've never touched any drug ever, this awakening came spontaneously and natural to me. I guess because I wanted it - I asked for truth of my being, and I was given it. It was a gift to myself.



.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:15 am

Walker wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:18 pm

After reading one of the search results, this was the next question and answer.

Q: Don’t you become completely irresponsible?
M: How could I? How can I hurt something which is one with me. On the contrary, without thinking of the world, whatever I do will be of benefit to it. Just as the body sets itself right uncon-sciously, so am I ceaselessly active in setting the world right.


Obviously, Sri Nisargadatta defines irresponsible as hurting something.
He defines words in relation to life and living.

The dialogues are brilliant.
Yes they are brilliant... the consciousness obviously enjoys living so why would it scupper that joy of being....responsibility still happens because that's how consciousness programs itself to function, out of love for itself. So yeah, it's always looking out for itself, it's got it's best interest at heart, it's does everything in it's power to keep itself living in a well balanced state.


Walker wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:18 pm
Re: chaos and aggression:

Here are images of an enlightened being in the world.
Not a frozen Buddha.

Sri Nisargadatta sometimes had an aggressive style of speaking that would earn PC frowns today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEcIO4sAvuE
Yeah Nissy was a grump and would have people thrown out of his gatherings, same with UG, he would shout at people as soon as they diverged from the truth. I guess they are like strict parents, they know what's best, they have an intolerance to be yanked back into the ignorance of other peoples energies that do not match the masters.

.

This wouldn't happen today of course, I can't imagine someone like mooji shouting at his listeners and having people thrown out of the satsang. Times have changed.

Although Mooji does warn people before he starts talking to leave their emotional baggage outside before entering so that he can give his full attention to the point in hand, and not have his energy depleted by getting sucked into other peoples negative energies.

.

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Walker » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:53 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:44 am
There are a ton of esoteric discourses and nonduality books now free online. Haven't read I AM That, but seen many quotes sourced from that book. Thanks for the quote. There's no one in power and that's the only true power there is. How's that for power?
Well, now you have everything but the helicopter.

Open I Am That to any page at random and you’ll find a launching pad for relevant contemplation.

For example, from Root Cause of Fear:

Q: “We, Europeans, find it very difficult to keep quiet. The world is too much with us.”

M: “Oh, no, you are dreamers too. We differ only in the contents of our dreams. You are after perfection — in the future. We are intent on finding it — in the now. The limited only is perfectible. The unlimited is already perfect. You are perfect, only you don’t know it. Learn to know yourself and you will discover wonders.

“All you need is already within you, only you must approach your self with reverence and love. Self-condemnation and self-distrust are grievous errors. Your constant flight from pain and search for pleasure is a sign of love you bear for your self; all I plead with you is this: make love of your self perfect. Deny your-self nothing — give your self infinity and eternity and discover that you do not need them; you are beyond.”

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Re: The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:38 pm

Walker wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:53 am


“All you need is already within you, only you must approach your self with reverence and love. Self-condemnation and self-distrust are grievous errors. Your constant flight from pain and search for pleasure is a sign of love you bear for your self; all I plead with you is this: make love of your self perfect. Deny your-self nothing — give your self infinity and eternity and discover that you do not need them; you are beyond.”[/i]
Great wisdom to live by, good quote.

It took me ages to realise that I am the only one who can love me. Because what happened to me is that I was too loving and trusting, but I didn't really know what love actually was, and when people rejected my natural feelings of affection toward others, I would believe it was because there was something wrong with me, I thought I was the one lacking love, since no one seemed to be interested in what I wanted to share with them. So then I started to believe love was something that other people give to me. But then over the years I discovered that no one was ever going to give me love, I had to give it to myself.

It was the most profound realisation ever. Now, everyday is like that being in love with your first love feeling, that dreamy feeling where time stands still and nothing of the external world matters anymore, this feeling is everyday for me now, it never leaves me, for how can I leave myself.

But then what about the pain side of being, both mental and physical pain...often people ask this question.

“Pain is physical; suffering is mental. Beyond the mind there is no suffering. Pain is merely a signal that the body is in danger and requires attention. Similarly, suffering warns us that the structure of memories and habits, which we call the person, is threatened by loss or change. Pain is essential for the survival of the body, but none compels you to suffer. Suffering is due entirely to clinging or resisting; it is a sign of our unwillingness to move on, to flow with life.”~Nisargadatta Maharaj

.

The thing is, like all sensations, thoughts and beliefs, they come and go, they eventually pass away..we just have to learn to accept the rough with the smooth and allow it all to be there without resistance to it..for it cannot change who we are in essence, nothing can make us happy, it's not something to attain, or buy..we are happiness bliss right now already perfect. I've noticed that pain although unpleasant is not a constant companion, and yet bliss is constant...strange that, but true.
Obviously what we invest in is going to be our reality. So it's about surrendering to what is and letting it be ..allow everything it's freedom to be, it's all energy doing what it does. Identification with mind that is just an appearance, that comes and goes, is attachment which is suffering. So rest in that which does not come and go..

.

As explained in the following quote...>

Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginning-less, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness…~Nisargadatta Maharaj

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