friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:31 pm
Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:38 am
This was in the past. Progress has devolved philosophy into the love of argument. Who cares about wisdom or even knows what it is? The important thing is winning the argument to prove what in reality, you don't understand.
So true. So sad.
I agree. I was beginning to think I was the only one who felt like this.
One reason the 'love of argument', and, the 'love of winning' has become so commonplace, in the days when this is being written, is because of the other Wrongly used word 'education'. The word 'education' once meant and was used to refer to, 'drawing out', or 'to lead out', 'to bring out'. Which is certainly not how the 'education-system' works, in the days when this is being written anyway. The so-called 'current' 'education-system' works on being told what to think and accept, you will then be questioned, challenged, and tested on what you have 'learned', and if you do not 'copy' and 'follow' what we have 'taught' you, then you will be either discriminated against, ridiculed, humiliated, or punished in one way or another.
Now, back to one reason why the 'love of arguing', (not in the 'logical reasoning' sense, but rather in the 'fighting to win'), is because an amount of the 'current' 'education-system' teaches one to 'pick one side/view', and then 'fight' 'to the death', for 'that side/view'.
So, and as can be clearly seen throughout this forum, this 'picking a side', or having and holding onto a particular view or belief, and then just trying to 'fight', in absolutely anyway possible, to 'prove' to others, that 'my view/belief' is the right one was a very common thing, in the days when this was being written.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
I am quite new to philosophy; I actually 'found' it by mistake, and I remember thinking, "How on earth did I not know about this? I have been thinking like this all my life. Now I know what it is called." To me, anyone can be a philosopher.
To me, absolutely every human being is born a True Philosopher, that is; Truly OPEN and Truly WANTING to learn and discover. That is, very sadly, until beliefs are formed, and then absolutely any want of learning and/or any openness to anything opposing that belief completely diminishes.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
I cannot jump into everyone's head an know for sure, but I suspect we all are to some extent. I think it is a very human and natural thing.
Very True, the natural instinct of being a human being is to be OPEN, with a very strong desire of wanting to learn and discover more and anew. This is the very reason why human beings, collectively, just keep imagining, inventing, planning, making, and creating newer and newer, once seemingly completely impossible, things.
Also, what else separates human beings from all of the other animals on earth is the human beings' ability to learn, understand, and reason absolutely any and every thing.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
I first found out about it because I went back to university to follow my love of creative writing. However, since I was an international student, they told me that for the first semester they would choose my courses for me. One of those courses was philosophy, and I loved it so much. I used to come out of each lecture or seminar almost skipping with energy and excitement lol But I honestly never remember any animosity in the seminars, no trying to win an argument or belittling others. We just talked about all the weird and wonderful ideas that came to us, we laughed a lot and we became friends.
Now, 'that' is the 'real world'.
Here, in this forum, is not the 'real world', although some might belief otherwise.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
I had to return to the UK early for family reasons, but I missed philosophy so much, so I naturally sought out a philosophy forum (not initially this one) But I was horrified. Some of the people were so rude and disrespectful and down right nasty. Why? I don't understand at all.
As I was just saying and pointing out above here some adult human beings will try just about absolutely anything 'to win' 'a fight'.
See, to some people here, they are, and literally, 'fighting' for their own existence.
This will become much better understand when who and what 'people' are, exactly, is discovered, or learned, and understood.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
What does anyone gain from that?
For some adult human beings, if they think that they have 'won' some thing, then this gives them some sort of 'pleasure' or 'enjoyment'.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
Certainly not wisdom. And people telling others that they were talking absolute rubbish and that they were not philosophers. Who are they to stand in judgement over others?
Considering the irrefutable Fact that absolutely every one has absolutely nothing at all to 'judge' another one on, except on one's own 'past experiences', alone, 'judging' another could not be a more Wrong thing to do, in Life.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
I mean, perhaps if they could demonstrate that they were the perfect philosopher (their words already indicated quite the opposite) then they may have some grounds to judge.
The only True, or perfect, 'Philosophers' are each and every new born child. From then, it could be argued, it is all downhill. That is, of course, until human beings start learning how to Truly look and Truly listen again, from the Truly OPEN perspective, and thus do actually learn what is actually True, and Right, in Life.
By the way, all adult human beings can, and will, learn far more about 'Life', and living, Itself, in and from the most Truly 'meaningful perspective', from new born human beings, then they could ever learn from anyone else or each other.
A perfect 'Philosopher' never 'judges' another. And, an adult perfect 'Philosopher' never does because they already know, exactly, how and why every one is, exactly, the way they are.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
They showed total arrogance and disregard for other people's views and feelings, with no respect for fellow human beings. Sorry for venting, but it makes me so upset.
It is not just perfectly great that you are sharing 'your views' from what 'you' have previously experienced, but it also very good for 'you' and others as well.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
And the worst thing was that I was waiting for someone to pull them up for their post. I mean, I thought, 'maybe there is something wrong with them. They might have issues, or be somehow vulnerable.
But there is not an adult human being, in the days when this is being written anyway, without 'issues'.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
Or maybe they are a troll." I just couldn't figure it out. Why was nobody saying something about it.
Mostly because they are doing whatever they can to so-call 'win', "themselves".
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
Then someone else piped up and agreed with the person, and that was it. I feel kind of bad, as I do not like confrontations, but I felt that I had to say something. To me, it was just so wrong how they were treating people.
'The world', in which you are living in 'now', or 'currently', is the result of 'a world', which 'taught' its young to 'pick a side/view', and 'fight till the death', for that 'side' or for that 'view'/belief.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
So anyway, this is a different forum, and I am hoping so much that people will be more respectful, kinder and open minded.
I am sad to say, I think you might even find this forum somewhat more disrespectful, less kinder, and maybe even more closed, as in this forum, as far as most of 'us' here have discovered, is the only forum where we do not get 'moderated' and/or kicked out of.
Which, in a sense, could eventually result in far more respectful, kinder, peaceful, and OPEN discussions, and even to 'logical reasoning', itself.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
Of course, we are not going to all agree on everything,
But, there are some things, which 'we' all do agree on, and even accept, and when 'we' finally get to 'these things', then 'we' will also know what is Truly Right, and Correct, in Life.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
but to me, part of philosophy is hearing others views and being able to look at things from all angles so as to work out what we believe and get as clear and honest picture of things as we can.
To 'work out' what one 'believes' I would suggest just asking "yourself", 'What are things that I do 'believe'?' Or, an even better way I found is absolutely any and every 'view' I have, or with each and every 'thought' that arises, again question "yourself", but this time ask, 'Do I 'believe' this to be true, or do I just 'think' this to be true?'
Then you can work on what you 'know' to be true, which is even different again.
But, having the 'love-of-wisdom', within, and the True desire to just keep learning more and more, anew and anewer, which just comes from having a 'love-of-learning', within, which is what is being Truly wise is, exactly, and from where 'wisdom', itself, actually comes from is done, best, exactly like you said and wrote here, From just hearing other's views, and from being able to look at things from all angles as well, then one cannot stop learning, and thus cannot also stop becoming 'wiser'. Which is just what 'philosophy' once used to mean.
friendofyours wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:26 am
We may not all agree, but everyone has a right to their opinions, and this should be mutually respected... in my view.
I would just disagree that not everyone as a 'right' to their opinions, if 'their opinions' involve the abuse of any thing.
Now, of course, every one, 'old enough' to have opinions, will have opinions, but no one has a 'right' to any opinion if 'that opinion' will lead to the harm or damage of any other one/thing.