Where is the philosophy???

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Pattern-chaser
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:58 am

Where is the philosophy???

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:48 pm ...
I see ego, anger, contempt and ill-will, personal insults, and so on.
...
More to the point, I see no philosophy.
...
I'm puzzled that the moderators here don't, er, moderate such behaviour.
Age wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:02 am LOL
LOL
LOL

Just because you made the CLAIM that you see 'such behavior', this does NOT mean 'such behavior' EXISTS. And, the FACT that you HAVE NOT and WILL NOT provide ANY supporting evidence for what you CLAIM to 'see', is just MORE supporting PROOF that what you 'see' does NOT even exist anyway.

Oh, and by the way, the reason WHY most posters are STILL HERE in this forum is because this IS a relatively 'free of speech' website. Just about ANY thing can be said and written and it will NOT be moderated.
I came to this forum hoping to find philosophical discussion. Having read Philosophy Now since its inception, I am disappointed in the almost-complete lack of philosophy, and discussion. Instead, there is conflict, abuse, argument by assertion, and other childishness. I've wasted my (very short) time here; I'm off to find some grown-ups to talk to about philosophy.

Fare well.
Age
Posts: 20043
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Age »

Pattern-chaser wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:49 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:48 pm ...
I see ego, anger, contempt and ill-will, personal insults, and so on.
...
More to the point, I see no philosophy.
...
I'm puzzled that the moderators here don't, er, moderate such behaviour.
Age wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:02 am LOL
LOL
LOL

Just because you made the CLAIM that you see 'such behavior', this does NOT mean 'such behavior' EXISTS. And, the FACT that you HAVE NOT and WILL NOT provide ANY supporting evidence for what you CLAIM to 'see', is just MORE supporting PROOF that what you 'see' does NOT even exist anyway.

Oh, and by the way, the reason WHY most posters are STILL HERE in this forum is because this IS a relatively 'free of speech' website. Just about ANY thing can be said and written and it will NOT be moderated.
I came to this forum hoping to find philosophical discussion. Having read Philosophy Now since its inception, I am disappointed in the almost-complete lack of philosophy, and discussion. Instead, there is conflict, abuse, argument by assertion, and other childishness. I've wasted my (very short) time here; I'm off to find some grown-ups to talk to about philosophy.

Fare well.
So, which one is it, EXACTLY?

Did you want to find 'philosophical discussion', OR, did you want to talk 'about philosophy'?

What does the word 'philosophy' even mean, or refer to, to you, EXACTLY?

Oh, and by the way, 'you', so-called 'grown up adult human beings, have been discussing a lot of these discussions in this forum for millennia now, without ANY real success AT ALL. So, good luck in finding some 'grown-up' to talk to about 'philosophy'.
Walker
Posts: 14245
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Walker »

Pattern-chaser wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:49 pm I came to this forum hoping to find philosophical discussion. Having read Philosophy Now since its inception, I am disappointed in the almost-complete lack of philosophy, and discussion. Instead, there is conflict, abuse, argument by assertion, and other childishness. I've wasted my (very short) time here; I'm off to find some grown-ups to talk to about philosophy.

Fare well.
It's rather amazing, isn't it.
Where will you find the grown-ups to talk to about philosophy?

One would think that pookas and patterns go together like a hand and glove.
Walker
Posts: 14245
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Walker »

“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do.”
- Gandhi
https://www.professorbuzzkill.com/gandh ... the-world/

Comment: That's quite the statement of causation, however aging is the proof. The Prince becomes King Lear, the happiness in misery is found within the philosophical awareness when one has indeed become Lear.
Walker
Posts: 14245
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Walker »

Pattern-chaser wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:49 pm I came to this forum hoping to find philosophical discussion.
It’s kind of funny that those who say reincarnation is hokum can’t remember an intense dream within minutes of awakening, although the emotional intensity itself might linger and dissipate into the waking life. So the past engaging life of the dream is forgotten almost immediately after the next life, the waking life, commences.

This is interesting in a more universal, philosophical sense because I have it on good authority, take my word for it, that karmic entangling by any other name is attachment to emotional involvement. One can get as emotional as proclivities and chemistry demand, but attachment is the key.

Such attachment to the transitory as if it were permanent via emotions which are not permanent, creates repeatable patterns of behavior that reinforces the karmic entanglement that will always linger in timeless potentiality, manifesting in various repeatable illusions of the big picture, shaped by limitations of form, and shaped by corruption of what the limitations allow. Fortunately for humans, we have great access to the mind sense, more than plants and animals.

Of course reading mere assertions rather than a proven, if not demonstrable, unified field theory of all things known and unknown may entail dialogue that requires presence to make observations of whatever sparks attention, and ideally those observations would build on the framing rather than tear up the blueprints with side-bar questions about the drawing board.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6591
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:39 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:49 pm I came to this forum hoping to find philosophical discussion.
It’s kind of funny that those who say reincarnation is hokum can’t remember an intense dream within minutes of awakening,
Nice
Nick_A
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Nick_A »

The term philosophy comes from two Greek words, philos, which means friend or lover, and sophia, which means wisdom. So philosophy is the love of wisdom and, more importantly, the philosopher is the friend or, better, lover of wisdom.
This was in the past. Progress has devolved philosophy into the love of argument. Who cares about wisdom or even knows what it is? The important thing is winning the argument to prove what in reality, you don't understand.
BigMike
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:51 pm

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by BigMike »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:38 am
The term philosophy comes from two Greek words, philos, which means friend or lover, and sophia, which means wisdom. So philosophy is the love of wisdom and, more importantly, the philosopher is the friend or, better, lover of wisdom.
This was in the past. Progress has devolved philosophy into the love of argument. Who cares about wisdom or even knows what it is? The important thing is winning the argument to prove what in reality, you don't understand.
So true. So sad.
Age
Posts: 20043
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Age »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:38 am
The term philosophy comes from two Greek words, philos, which means friend or lover, and sophia, which means wisdom. So philosophy is the love of wisdom and, more importantly, the philosopher is the friend or, better, lover of wisdom.
This was in the past. Progress has devolved philosophy into the love of argument.
'Philosophy', itself, has NEVER changed. That is; 'phil-o-sophy' CAN STILL REMAIN the 'love-of-wisdom', or by just HAVING the 'love-of-becoming-wiser'. Which is just done by being Truly OPEN AND by being Truly CURIOS.

'Becoming wiser' happens, and occurs, through just LEARNING. And, by being Truly OPEN one cannot NOT 'learn'.

ALL human beings are born Truly (and/or FULLY) OPEN. However, and very unfortunately, because of just how OPEN they ALL are, this OPENNESS allowed them to learn what is ACTUALLY Wrong in Life and 'reason' 'that' out as being what is right in Life. And, they also learned to BELIEVE some 'things' as be true in Life, but which are ACTUALLY False and/or Wrong.

Once BELIEF sets in these PREVIOUSLY Truly OPEN 'philosophers' these ones turn into COMPLETELY CLOSED people. Otherwise known as 'adult human beings. BUT, there is HOPE as RETURNING BACK to being Truly OPEN again is POSSIBLE, and in ACTUALITY is REALLY a VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASY process. That is; ONLY if one Truly WANTS to LEARN, and thus BECOME-WISER.

All that is REALLY NEEDED is just Honesty, Openness, and a serious Want to CHANGE, for the better. And, this is HOW adult human beings CAN and WILL CHANGE, for the betterment of ALL.

For ALL problems there is A SOLUTION, and for EVERY 'solution' there is a FORMULA. The 'formula' to ALL of so-called 'Life's problems', but which REALLY are just 'human being created ONLY problems' is Honesty, Openness, and a serious Want, to change for the better. H.O.W. is the formula that WILL CHANGE human beings for the better. And this is HOW 'life', itself, will also CHANGE into BECOMING BETTER for EVERY one ALSO.

'Phil-o-sophy', itself, NEVER 'devolved'. Only 'you', adult human beings, DEVOLVED, that is; WHEN 'you' started BELIEVING 'things' are true AND started FIGHTING and ARGUING over your OWN obtained BELIEFS.

However, there was a PURPOSE for 'you', human beings, DEVOLVING in order so 'you' could LEARN H.O.W to CHANGE for the BETTER, and ONCE, and for ALL. ALL referring to EVERY one as well as for ETERNALLY.

Having FINALLY learning HOW to CHANGE for the BETTER. Then forever more 'you', human beings, can CONTINUALLY KEEP CHANGING, for the BETTER. Thus, CONTINUALLY keep MAKING 'life' and living MUCH BETTER for EVERY one and EVERY thing else ALSO.

WHEN 'you', adult human beings, START BECOMING True 'philosophers' AGAIN, that is; having the LOVE-OF-LEARNING within 'you' AGAIN, just like 'you' ALL ONCE WERE, and as ALL new borns STILL ARE, then, and ONLY THEN, 'life' WILL BECOME the Truly Peaceful AND Harmonious 'world' that EVERY one WANTS, and what WAS intended to BECOME and WILL BE-come.
Nick_A wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:38 am Who cares about wisdom or even knows what it is?
There is a VERY DEEP Want TO LEARN, which STILL EXISTS WITHIN EVERY human being. So, DEEP WITHIN EVERY one there is a CARE about be-coming and then BE-ing wiser.

Asking, "Who even knows what 'wisdom' is?' could be inferred that 'you' are implying that 'you' know. Now, if this was what 'you' were implying, then I will wait for 'you' to tell 'us' what 'wisdom' is, exactly. But, if you were just asking 'who knows what 'wisdom' is?', then that will be a question that would take some time finding out what the actual true and right answer is.
Nick_A wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:38 am The important thing is winning the argument to prove what in reality, you don't understand.
1. One MIGHT actually UNDERSTAND, and FULLY. So, you CLAIMING that 'you' KNOW that the "other", in reality, does NOT understand is False, Wrong, AND Incorrect in and of itself. It is like 'you' are TRYING TO "win" the 'argument' or 'fight' here.

2. To me, 'philosophy' IS STILL just about HAVING a 'LOVE OF 'becoming wiser' or just HAVING that LOVE OF 'learning'.

3. If one is 'TRYING TO' "win an argument", or that 'winning an argument' is somehow 'important' to them, then that is NOT 'philosophy', and those ones are NOT 'philosophers', well to me anyway.

As I said previously, to me, the ONLY True 'philosophers' are the VERY young of the species - human beings. That is; UNTIL adult human beings CHANGE THEIR WAYS and BECOME Truly OPEN and Truly CURIOS, AGAIN, just like ALL very young ones ARE.
Age
Posts: 20043
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Age »

BigMike wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:31 pm
Nick_A wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:38 am
The term philosophy comes from two Greek words, philos, which means friend or lover, and sophia, which means wisdom. So philosophy is the love of wisdom and, more importantly, the philosopher is the friend or, better, lover of wisdom.
This was in the past. Progress has devolved philosophy into the love of argument. Who cares about wisdom or even knows what it is? The important thing is winning the argument to prove what in reality, you don't understand.
So true. So sad.
Philosophy does NOT involve providing a definition, which does NOT FIT IN with other words, nor eve FITS IN with and WORKS with Life, Itself, and then CLAIMING what I have been 'arguing' and 'fighting' for is therefore RIGHT, and what I have been saying is absolutely TRUE and CORRECT.

This way of 'arguing' and 'communicating', which 'you' have SHOWN and DO here in this forum "bigmike" is SO FAR REMOVED from what 'philosophy' ONCE MEANT, and STILL DOES, to me.

Also, are 'you' AGREEING with the above that, in reality, you actually do NOT understand 'the argument' that is someho so important for 'you' to, laughably 'win' in regards to the 'free will' VERSUS 'determinism' discussion?
Nick_A
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Nick_A »

Age
'Becoming wiser' happens, and occurs, through just LEARNING. And, by being Truly OPEN one cannot NOT 'learn'.
Are you sure you don't mean indoctrinated so society calls you wise.
ALL human beings are born Truly (and/or FULLY) OPEN. However, and very unfortunately, because of just how OPEN they ALL are, this OPENNESS allowed them to learn what is ACTUALLY Wrong in Life and 'reason' 'that' out as being what is right in Life. And, they also learned to BELIEVE some 'things' as be true in Life, but which are ACTUALLY False and/or Wrong.
Again you refer to being right in life from a secular perspective. The point is who appreciates wisdom from a universal perspective?


when one experiences a field of life that is pure, eternal, immortal, unified, and unchanging. Plato calls this state wisdom.

Indoctrination then denies a universal perspective so must deny wisdom.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6591
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Iwannaplato »

Pattern-chaser wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:49 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:48 pm ...
I see ego, anger, contempt and ill-will, personal insults, and so on.
...
More to the point, I see no philosophy.
...
I'm puzzled that the moderators here don't, er, moderate such behaviour.
Age wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:02 am LOL
LOL
LOL

Just because you made the CLAIM that you see 'such behavior', this does NOT mean 'such behavior' EXISTS. And, the FACT that you HAVE NOT and WILL NOT provide ANY supporting evidence for what you CLAIM to 'see', is just MORE supporting PROOF that what you 'see' does NOT even exist anyway.

Oh, and by the way, the reason WHY most posters are STILL HERE in this forum is because this IS a relatively 'free of speech' website. Just about ANY thing can be said and written and it will NOT be moderated.
I came to this forum hoping to find philosophical discussion. Having read Philosophy Now since its inception, I am disappointed in the almost-complete lack of philosophy, and discussion. Instead, there is conflict, abuse, argument by assertion, and other childishness. I've wasted my (very short) time here; I'm off to find some grown-ups to talk to about philosophy.

Fare well.
This guy is gone, I assume, but I think some people here did respond with philosophical answers. I did here and he did not respond....
viewtopic.php?p=594713#p594713
and then other posts that were respectful and philosophy
in that thread.
Wizard22
Posts: 2776
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:16 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Wizard22 »

If there is no philosophy here.

Then plant your flag and let your voice be the philosophy.
Walker
Posts: 14245
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Walker »

Wizard22 wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:07 am If there is no philosophy here.

Then plant your flag and let your voice be the philosophy.
Good point. This thread, any thread, any situation, is what you make of it.
Walker
Posts: 14245
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Where is the philosophy???

Post by Walker »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:38 am... Progress has devolved philosophy into the love of argument. Who cares about wisdom or even knows what it is? The important thing is winning the argument to prove what in reality, you don't understand.
The philosophy of the past was the monograph, where one person presents a particular view. In presenting a view, the same person may present other views to contrast with that particular view, for a clearer explanation.

The monograph is often used in a dialogue situation. PN Forum is a dialogue situation, and ideally dialogue format can go one of two ways.

- One way is for a view to be presented by one person. Then, another person attempts to falsify that view.

- The other way is for a view to again be presented by one person. Then, another person presents a contrasting view. This is what a philosophical monograph format does in order to contrast views, but with one person presenting both views.

- A dialogue can use both methods, which can irk those who keep meticulously ordered sock drawers.
- Note that in a dialogue, the person who presents a view does not turn around and attempt to falsify that view.
-Another person attempts to falsify that view. Folks get confused about that, thinking that the presenter should falsify his own view, especially when a view is so well presented that the other person's only response is, "lot's of folks think lots of things." This could be due to science corrupting philosophy. :|


However Nick, when you mention argument, I think you mean something different.
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