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by Ginkgo
Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:56 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

Unless or until an infinite Universe can be falsified it will remain a valid propostion The fact that it is not logical is irrelevant as logic and empiricism are not the same Actually, you are correct. We now know we live in a flat universe (in 2 dimensions). Everything is moving away from everythi...
by Ginkgo
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:12 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

A quantum state obviously isn't a "nothing." It's a state OF something. For example, if it's a state "of matter," then we're back to the infinite regress problem, because the "matter" in question needs a causal explanation of its own. In that case, we would be positing that the quantum state was a ...
by Ginkgo
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:50 am
Forum: The Lounge
Topic: Grandaddy's Gun
Replies: 108
Views: 8357

Re: Grandaddy's Gun

In the Sandy Hook, Newton school killings the boy with the gun did not hesitate to point a gun in the faces of six/seven year old children and pull the trigger. 20 children were massacred clinically and with utter precision, leaving no chance that life would continue. Lanza was allowed to have guns...
by Ginkgo
Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:27 pm
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

A quantum state obviously isn't a "nothing." It's a state OF something. For example, if it's a state "of matter," then we're back to the infinite regress problem, because the "matter" in question needs a causal explanation of its own. In that case, we would be positing that the quantum state was a ...
by Ginkgo
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:31 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

I thought that the design argument was a teleological argument. That depends on what you mean by "teleological argument." If you mean that an "end" or "outcome" ( telos ) has to be implied, it isn't. The design argument follows the pattern of argument-to-the-best-explanation. In that, it's differen...
by Ginkgo
Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:54 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

From there, we must pick up a new argument if we wish to figure out the identity and precise nature of the Supreme Being...which is why more than one such argument exists in the first place. And my suggestion is that the design argument is the best next candidate, or the teleological argument. Both...
by Ginkgo
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:22 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

Aristotle's unmoved mover is sentient because it has an intellect. I can't think of any non-sentient candidates. Where that leaves us, then, is here: we know there has to have been a First Cause, one that is eternal, uncaused, and now sentient as well. That leaves us uncertain as to the exact natur...
by Ginkgo
Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:29 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

Sorry, double post.
by Ginkgo
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:48 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

Well, Aristotle's unmoved mover springs to mind. Okay, we could go with something like that. I guess what we need to ask about that is whether there are any candidates for non -sentient First Causes. Are you satisfied that there are none? Aristotle's unmoved mover is sentient because it has an inte...
by Ginkgo
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:16 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

OK, let us assume that we can trace causes and their effects back to a first cause. What comes next? Well, the point is that we don't have to be able to "trace" anything...all we have to know is that mathematically, an infinite regression of causes is impossible, and we're involved in a line of cau...
by Ginkgo
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:36 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

BTW Can you please stop quote mining it's getting very tiresome? I can. But if I do, our messages get progressively longer, and longer and longer...and that's even more tiresome. I would prefer that we really on the little arrow in blue beside our names, which instantly takes us back to the totalit...
by Ginkgo
Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:50 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

I note this. But a "cause" automatically implies an "effect," and the reverse is true as well; and "effect" implies there was a "cause." "Contradiction" is not the right word for the problem: "entailment" is. The one is entailed by the other. I think we are talking about two different things. Now, ...
by Ginkgo
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:19 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

...what I am saying is that cause and effect in the physical world is a fact. Oh. Okay. Well, then how do you then say... ...there are effects without causes. Okay, then...now you say there are such things as effects that have no causes. That seems to contradict your claim that cause-and-effect is ...
by Ginkgo
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:31 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

At this juncture we are up to casual chains. I'm fine with going back to that. I believe I asked you if you thought causality was a delusion, and you said it was, because of quantum physics. But if causality is a delusion, then you surely don't believe in science; for science rests on inductive det...
by Ginkgo
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:14 am
Forum: Introduce Yourself
Topic: Is God necessary for morality?
Replies: 427
Views: 28774

Re: Is God necessary for morality?

Belinda wrote: At this juncture we revert to "is God necessary for morality?" I claim not so because morality is intersubjective and not an objective, natural and absolute law.
Please don't start Immanuel Can off on this again, I couldn't stand it. At this juncture we are up to casual chains.