Search found 51 matches

by romanv
Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:29 am
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

Abstention = not voting. Which which can be signaled not voting. And obviously counts as nothing. As it is not a vote. NOTA = which is withholding your consent for an election to declare a winner, which is signaled by ticking the NOTA box. Which counts a vote. As it is a vote. Naturally you don't w...
by romanv
Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:26 am
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:25 am
Has the NOTA vote worked in the way you hope in Australia?
They don't have one in Australia.
by romanv
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:33 am
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

It isn't. You cant easily differentiate between an error and a NOTA vote. Yeah. Because people deface ballots by accident. Am I to take i you now support NOTA, but for some trivial reason,or still don't want it to on the ballot, or are you angling for a way to hide the option from voters? Have I ex...
by romanv
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:08 am
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

You are failing to differentiate signaling from processing. Absolutely nothing stops you from using your pen to draw a new box on the ballot which says "NONE OF THE ABOVE". There - your NOTA vote has been SIGNALED unambiguously! And when your ballot paper is counted your unambiguous NOTA singnal wi...
by romanv
Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:57 am
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

Look this has been done to death. You proposed that instead of a NOTA option, we should just leave ballots blank or deface them etc. I have given pretty good reasons why i disagree. Also how do you separate defaced ballots or blank ballots for NOTA from those done in error? This is just unnecessary...
by romanv
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 am
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

Its merry-go-round with you. It's hard getting through to you... Forcing voters to deface a ballot carries negative implications. In fact, the idea that you have to deface a ballot in order to withhold your consent emphasises just how undemocratic the system is. Then don't deface it. Leave the ball...
by romanv
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:09 am
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

1. Also in a post-NOTA environment, big money may still invest in candidates if they would like to. However, since the ultimate objective of corporate donations is to gain influence after the election, the safest bet is to contribute to both candidates. Whoever wins will have received support from ...
by romanv
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:32 pm
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

Roman, I'll add 2 comments about elections in a post-NOTA era. 1. Candidates may want to run on their positions on the issues, rather than running a negative campaign. Whipping the voters into a panic, about how awful the opposing candidate is, may motivate more voters to vote NOTA. 2. If an electi...
by romanv
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:26 pm
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

They are counted as abstentions. That's how it is. Every single person, save one, can spoil their ballot, save one, and that single non-spoilt ballot chooses the winner, technically anyway. To withhold consent on a practical basis requires an option on the ballot and a democratically valid conseque...
by romanv
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:50 pm
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

A spoilt vote register as an abstention, and there is no formal consequence of spoiling you ballot It's entirely up to us on how we interpret abstentions/spoiled votes. We can interpret abstensions as NOTAs and they can be consequential. If we so choose. There should be an option on the ballot, and...
by romanv
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:35 pm
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

Your conceptual idea is nothing but good intentions. Reality doesn't care about good intentions. Either it works or it doesn't work IN PRACTICE. And so if your good intentions lead to catastrophic systematic collapse - then it was a crap idea! Irrespective of your intentions. I've reached the end o...
by romanv
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:35 pm
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

This is why pragmatism trumps idealism every single time and why I myself am one : because it works Idealism is very well meaning but unless it leads to actual change then it is in practical terms useless I have no intention of changing the world as that is beyond me [ and indeed everyone else too ...
by romanv
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:28 pm
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

As I said the conceptual framework of democracy precludes your individual sovereignty being infringed upon. The mechanism of enforcing your individual sovereignty ultimately rests on the judicial system, just as it does now. Pointing out that the conceptual framework of democracy acts as further pr...
by romanv
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:22 pm
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

Reality doesnt care about good intentions . Either it works or it doesn't work IN PRACTICE This is why pragmatism trumps idealism every single time and why I myself am one : because it works Idealism is very well meaning but unless it leads to actual change then it is in practical terms useless I h...
by romanv
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:46 am
Forum: Political Philosophy
Topic: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good
Replies: 117
Views: 2911

Re: The Ability to Formally Withhold Consent at Elections Leads to Real Democracy and Maximises the Common Good

Yes. Like I said NOTA would be a mechanism for effective boycott to change. This way 30% of the electorate who show up on voting day cannot decide on policy. Wat? You don't get to choose NOTA by staying at home. If only 30% show up with a NOTA option present that means 70% have abstained and will g...