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by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:58 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

Peter Holmes wrote: I disagree. Lightwaves and brain-processing (electrical and chemical) to produce perception are real things we can measure. The expression 'the nature of [a particular situation's] morality' begs the question: in what way does a particular situation 'have' a moral value? (And wh...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:48 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

And why introduce the metaphysical category 'mind' in this anyway? Let's just stick with brains. Minds are what brains DO. It's an emergent property . It is systems theory . Not metaphysics. And there's the confusion: minds are emergent properties of brains. What kind of property is a mind? Is it a...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:30 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

But do you think moral rightness and wrongness are similarly features of reality, like lightwaves and brains? There is a similarity, but not a complete parallel. Lightwaves exist, but our perception of them is constructed in the brain/mind. A particular situation could be said to exist, but the nat...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:19 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

No. I don't think the mind is a thing that either does or doesn't exist. There are brains, and things which are not brains, such as lightwaves. Your task is to show that moral rightness and wrongness are among those things that are not brains. Why the special pleading? Brains are objective, real th...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:11 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

Please read what I actually write. I make no claim about the mind whatsoever. I withdraw what I said about the mind, which was a mistake. It doesn't matter what claims you make about the mind. You are USING the mind to make claims. You are USING the mind to take measurements of reality. So your ins...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:05 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

(I apologise for talking about 'inside and outside the mind'. That was a lapse. The philosophy of mind is another cavern down the metaphysical rabbit hole. I withdraw those remarks.) For as long as you keep talking about "mind independence" you are stuck down that rabbit hole. Unfortunately - you h...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:55 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

But those light wavelengths are features of reality. So which wavelength do you call "blue" ? quote="Peter Holmes" post_id=411324 time=1559374853 user_id=15099] But do you think moral rightness and wrongness are similarly features of reality The ability to recognize "blueness" is a feature of brain...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:40 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

Sorry, but I think you're in a muddle. Colours are features of reality, outside our minds. (I assume you're not an idealist.) But moral rightness and wrongness are not such features of reality, outside our minds. Colours exist when there's no one to perceive and categorise them. But there can be no...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:42 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

Peter Holmes wrote: Do you think that colours such as blue are not features of reality? Sure they are! All of our experiences, the experiences of each of us, are features of reality. The experiences of a sparrow are features of reality.There is no phenomenon that is not real, not even the raving be...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:15 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7966

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

The question is whether abortion is moral. You say 'Moral claims can be factual as well. When one says, "Abortion is wrong," one is making a statement of fact.' This is false, You may (and I know you do) insist that it is false to say that moral claims are factual. I'm not disputing your saying it....
by Peter Holmes
Fri May 31, 2019 3:32 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7966

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

Precisely my point. I don't see where you're disagreeing. I'm taking a slight issue with this claim: So we have a moral argument, not a dispute about facts. If there were facts, there could be no argument...the answers - yea or nay - express moral opinions, not factual claims. There are two things:...
by Peter Holmes
Fri May 31, 2019 1:02 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7966

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

I have shown how we justify such assertions about reality, often by simply pointing at the feature of reality. Oh, look, the sky is blue. I'm sorry you have such difficulty understanding this. Yes. I am still waiting for you to explain HOW you know that the 'sky is blue'. You claim that 'murder is ...
by Peter Holmes
Fri May 31, 2019 12:38 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7966

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

Precisely my point. I don't see where you're disagreeing. The moral question 'Is it legitimate for one person to create and then kill another?' is, as you say, loaded with assumptions. But the answers - yea or nay - express moral opinions, not factual claims. And yet you remain unable to justify HO...
by Peter Holmes
Fri May 31, 2019 9:27 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

Dodging. I am showing you the mirror. You are working really hard to avoid looking. You are claiming that wrongness is a feature of reality. You are claiming that blueness is a feature of reality. And I simply reject that claim, for the lack of evidence of which I'm aware. Then you must also reject...
by Peter Holmes
Fri May 31, 2019 8:59 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48902

Re: What could make morality objective?

You're just dodging. You now agree that murder may not be wrong. So how do we adjudicate between the two claims: 'murder is wrong' and 'murder is right'? Look in the mirror. You now agree that the sky may not be blue. So how do we adjudicate between the two claims: "sky is blue" and "sky is not blu...