Search found 510 matches

by Peter Holmes
Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:54 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

That we are bipedal and have developed language and morality - these are facts - true factual assertions. And we can produce reasonable evolutionary explanations for why they're features of our species. This is only true for spoken language (inter-personal communication) But there's no reason to be...
by Peter Holmes
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:02 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: 'If you note, what I have proposed is a System-based Framework of Morality and Ethics with absolute objective principles as the main input as fixed goals and good moral acts as output by the individuals.' But any 'absolute objective principles' that we 'propose' can be neithe...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:11 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

does logic deal with reality at all? Yes. Logic (logos/language) describes reality. Some logos describes reality more precisely. How precisely should we describe reality? Value judgment. a rock shouldn't be a not-rock. A tautology isn't a value-judgement. And the justification for accepting the rul...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:38 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

Veritas Aequitas I believe I've explained why I disagree with your position - which, because of this discussion, I think I understand pretty well. And you say: 'I am arguing from the Philosophical Anti-Realist standpoint where everything is ultimately subjective, i.e. never independent of the human ...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:11 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

Note the contradiction in what you say: Note that you have accepted the 'law' of non-contradiction (an 'ought' claim) without any justification. Objectivity can't be both 'fundamentally intersubjective consensus' and 'true and independent of any human subjective opinion'. The rules of identity and ...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:43 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Note the essence of the philosophical consideration of the term 'objectivity' is this; 1. Objectivity is fundamentally inter-subjective consensus. 2. There is a continuum and degrees to 'objectivity' relative to its method of verification. Scientific facts has the highest deg...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:32 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

No god == no morality is true though. Meaning that any social norms (moral rules) we wish to enforce - we have to invent an authority to enforce them. Gods are man-made authorities after all. Institutions. I disagree. You're identifying morality with socially imposed rules - but these are different...
by Peter Holmes
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:20 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

I wrote the following: 'The rules or standards within a system or model have no truth-value - they're simply normative. To call them 'objective', which here means 'factual', is tautologous, and so vacuous.' Veritas Aequitas wrote: You got the wrong idea that 'objective' must be factual. That the mo...
by Peter Holmes
Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:12 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

TimeSeeker I'm struggling with what you're getting at, so I apologise for being slow to address it. I have some prelim questions - and sorry if they're stupid. Do I detect Frege's baleful influence? The illusion of a non-linguistic language? Do you agree that a meta-language is just another language...
by Peter Holmes
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:26 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

I wrote the following: 'The rules or standards within a system or model have no truth-value - they're simply normative. To call them 'objective', which here means 'factual', is tautologous, and so vacuous.' Veritas Aequitas wrote: You got the wrong idea that 'objective' must be factual. That the mod...
by Peter Holmes
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:58 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

Why slavery is wrong is due to the disrespect for a person's basic humanity dignity where no human can own another person as in Chattel Slavery. Then one need to ask why, why, why till we arrive at some grounding which must be objective, i.e. not subjective opinions. Again, you're proposing a subje...
by Peter Holmes
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:23 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

My OP question is: what could make morality objective? And by 'objective' I mean 'relying on - or a matter of - facts rather than judgements, beliefs or opinions'. For example, is the moral assertion 'slavery is wrong' a fact - a true factual assertion - or is it a value-judgement? The crucial point...
by Peter Holmes
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:15 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

The existence or non-existence of a god is irrelevant, because we're talking about the nature of objectivity. No, look up at the OP: we're talking about the relevance of the adjective "objective" to the word "morality," in particular. We aren't debating, for example, the "objectivity" of science. W...
by Peter Holmes
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:45 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

Immanuel Can As I expected, you won't or can't answer some very simple questions, such as: if a god said slavery is okay, would that make it okay? You won't or can't answer 'no', because that would expose the absurdity of basing moral values and judgements on a god's (or anyone's) commands.... No, ...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:07 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 52785

Re: What could make morality objective?

Immanuel Can As I expected, you won't or can't answer some very simple questions, such as: if a god said slavery is okay, would that make it okay? You won't or can't answer 'no', because that would expose the absurdity of basing moral values and judgements on a god's (or anyone's) commands. To defle...