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by Peter Holmes
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:22 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

Univalence believes that 'nothing is mind-independent'. So, idealist cards on the table. Bit of a problem for a self-identifying empiricist - an epistemological foundationalist.
by Peter Holmes
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:47 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

The difference between factual and non-factual assertions, such as moral and aesthetic ones, has nothing to do with who produces or accepts them - how many people agree with them - but rather the nature of the claims they make. Here are examples of each kind of assertion. 1 The assertion 'water is a...
by Peter Holmes
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:34 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

A quick argument against moral objectivism 1 A factual assertion must be falsifiable, if only in principle. 2 For a moral assertion to be factual, it must be falsifiable, if only in principle. 3 If a moral assertion is unfalsifiable, even in principle, then it cannot be factual. 4 If a moral assert...
by Peter Holmes
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:35 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: Pete

You wrote: "The problem with believing there are moral facts, independent of opinion, is that anyone can think their moral opinions are facts, and nobody can prove them wrong - that their moral assertions are false. For example, if the claim 'involuntary euthanasia is right' is factual, how could i...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:55 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

It was in my last message. Sorry, I missed it. Was it that a moral assertion can be falsified by showing that, if a god thinks it's false, then it's false? To reprise, then, you wrote... The problem with believing there are moral facts, independent of opinion, is that anyone can think their moral o...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:31 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:22 pm
Peter Holmes wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:07 pm
If any moral objectivist here can show how to falsify a moral claim, please do so, enlighten us all, and end this debate.
It was in my last message.
Sorry, I missed it. Was it that a moral assertion can be falsified by showing that, if a god thinks it's false, then it's false?
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:07 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

I want to re-state the moral argument against moral objectivism. The problem with believing there are moral facts (independent of opinion) is that anyone can think their moral opinions are facts, and nobody can prove that they're wrong, by falsifying their moral assertions. If a moral claim is factu...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:37 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: Pete

If morality is subjective then it 'is' just an opinion, even if held by all members of a society. Society A holds that come age 65, folks should submit to euthanasia. If morality is subjective (just an opinion) this is all well & fine (bit of problem for those oldsters who might not wanna go to sle...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:41 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48165

Re: What could make morality objective?

Peter Holmes wrote: Consider these pairs of claims: 1 Humans are social animals. Humans should be social animals. 2 Human societies have moral codes. Human societies should have moral codes. 3 People instinctively can't commit murder. People shouldn't commit murder. 4 People think murder is wrong. ...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:36 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: Pete

You asked up-thread: is abortion right (morally justifiable) or wrong (morally unjustifiable)? I responded: Seems to me, the deeper question is: Is morality objective (a function of reality) or subjective (just an opinion)? --- If morality is objective: the conundrum of abortion lies in figuring ou...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:27 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 1817
Views: 48165

Re: What could make morality objective?

Your counter-argument is about fear-of-consequences of committing murder. I am betting you that you can't even bring yourself to commit murder. Even if you took precautionary steps to avoid getting caught. No. You really are obtuse, stuck in your own self-confirmatory circle and impervious to reaso...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:21 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

This is either stupendous stupidity, or a wilful and dishonest misrepresentation of what I said. Either way, please fuck off and let intelligent and honest people have a discussion. Well, no. I used to think you are arguing a philosophical position, but now I am convinced you are this dumb. I notic...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:55 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

And this is supposed to be a factual question, with a factual answer. So the claim 'abortion is right' is supposedly true or false. And the claim 'abortion is wrong' is supposedly true or false. If so, how do we find out? Ah, I know: empirical testing is what we need. So, if people believe abortion...
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:49 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

Just to nail it. If a moral argument is consequentialist, it depends on moral opinions about factual consequences. But if a moral argument is deontological, facts are inconsequential, or their relevance is subject to moral opinion. Either way, moral arguments are not about facts, but rather opinions.
by Peter Holmes
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:33 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION
Replies: 569
Views: 7591

Re: "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS", HERE'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION

The question is: is abortion right (morally justifiable) or wrong (morally unjustifiable)? And this is supposed to be a factual question, with a factual answer. So the claim 'abortion is right' is supposedly true or false. And the claim 'abortion is wrong' is supposedly true or false. If so, how do ...