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by davidm
Wed May 31, 2017 8:02 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

What provocative and insightful responses from Harbal. (did you mean Herbal, or maybe you can't spell, either?)

Typical message board.

But don't let me interfere with your content-free trolling. Message boards are set up precisely so that trolls can destroy meaningful discussion.
by davidm
Wed May 31, 2017 4:35 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

There is still some misunderstanding about "will do" and "must do", perhaps it would be more clear if it was stated that the foreknowledge of OA does not bind O's actions, but O's actions bind OA's foreknowledge. There is a subtle difference. O's actions may not be decided till the time of the acti...
by davidm
Wed May 31, 2017 4:30 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

Davidm wrote: But the fixity of the past in no way implies the necessity of the past. They are two entirely different concepts. The past could have gone differently -- and if it had done so, then I would have different memories of the past. ... Events must be either caused or original. Given: event...
by davidm
Wed May 31, 2017 4:24 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

Only in your dreams. What a profound response. Thanks so much for your attention to this matter. No evidence exists to support your assertion. Quite the contrary. You were responding to my "assertion" that the fixity of the past does not imply the necessity of the past. So you think that all past, ...
by davidm
Wed May 31, 2017 4:20 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

There is still some misunderstanding about "will do" and "must do", perhaps it would be more clear if it was stated that the foreknowledge of OA does not bind O's actions, but O's actions bind OA's foreknowledge. There is a subtle difference. O's actions may not be decided till the time of the acti...
by davidm
Wed May 31, 2017 3:55 am
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

Walker wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 2:48 am
Only in your dreams.
What a profound response.

Thanks so much for your attention to this matter.
by davidm
Wed May 31, 2017 1:25 am
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

Agreed, apart from the necessity that it had to have necessarily have happened. I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. I think you mean that it is necessary that the past happened, but that you agree with me it is not necessary that it happened the way that it did — it could have been different....
by davidm
Tue May 30, 2017 5:10 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

My apologies my English appears unclear. What I think is that all you can infer from you remembering that I have had eggs or pancakes is that I have to have had eggs or pancakes. We should sort this out. If I accurately recall that you had pancakes yesterday, it is certainly true that I can't chang...
by davidm
Tue May 30, 2017 4:21 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

As far as I can tell the two of you mean it to mean that in the case of "must" there is no choice and with "will" there is. That’s correct. “Will” is different from “must,” obviously. All human acts are contingent, by definition. The accounts of epistemic and logical determinism illicitly ascribe n...
by davidm
Mon May 29, 2017 6:45 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

I would think it means the agent has had to have done it. Really? So yesterday, let's say, you had eggs for breakfast, and it so happens I remember this fact. This means you had to have had eggs? You couldn't have had pancakes instead? But if you had eaten pancakes instead, then I would today remem...
by davidm
Mon May 29, 2017 12:16 am
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

Here is the key passage from the paper to which I linked: b. The Modal Fallacy in Epistemic Determinism Let's recall Maimonides's argument: … "Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest 'He knows', then it necessarily follows that [that] man is co...
by davidm
Sun May 28, 2017 11:47 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

Thank you for your explanation and I think I understand your argument. However I'm not arguing that 'God' is the determiner here, as I said, 'it' may well not be but I don't think you can escape the logical inference that if there is an "Omniscient Agent(OA) with infallibly true beliefs about all f...
by davidm
Sun May 28, 2017 6:32 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

Actually it's an atheist paraphrasing an argument that theists have been dancing upon pin heads with since it dawned upon them that their 'God's' will appears incompatible with their 'freewill'. Or at least if it isn't then one or more of the big 3 O's are in doubt. Rereading your quote here: Yes -...
by davidm
Sun May 28, 2017 6:21 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

Actually it's an atheist paraphrasing an argument that theists have been dancing upon pin heads with since it dawned upon them that their 'God's' will appears incompatible with their 'freewill'. Or at least if it isn't then one or more of the big 3 O's are in doubt. I'm aware of this. The theists' ...
by davidm
Sat May 27, 2017 7:40 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will vs Determinism
Replies: 1471
Views: 167567

Re: Free Will vs Determinism

I happened to be wading through this thread while bored at work and came upon this: It's got nothing to do with human expectations, that's just a cop-out. If your 'God' is all knowing then 'it' knows everything and as such it knows what you are going to do and if this is the case then you will not b...