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by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:07 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:43 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:25 pm It's the logical upshot of YOUR view.
Then show this per a logical argument.
Page 23, in the middle.

You've got it broken down into premises, right there.
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:25 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

...if it's a logical upshot in your view, present the logical argument. How many times do I need to ask? This is the carousel again. 🎠 You know darn well what I actually said. It's the logical upshot of YOUR view. :shock: That you refuse to articulate the inevitable conclusion doesn't make it escap...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:47 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

You claimed that my view was contradictory. It is. You cannot both affirm and deny the existence of dynamics. Logically, you have to pick a horse and ride it. To do anything else is a contradiction. I hear the sounds of a carousel... 🎠 :wink: From where are you getting that my view both affirms and...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:52 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:28 pm You claimed that my view was contradictory.
It is. You cannot both affirm and deny the existence of dynamics. Logically, you have to pick a horse and ride it. To do anything else is a contradiction.

I hear the sounds of a carousel... 🎠 :wink:
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:17 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

Present the logical argument for that. So easy. Either things exist or do not exist. There's no middle state. That's axiomatic, logical and inevitable. You claim that everything that exists is also physical, do you not? Therefore, it cannot be the case that you think dynamics, assuming they exist, ...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:03 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

No, that means that logically you have to. :shock: Present the logical argument for that. So easy. Either things exist or do not exist. There's no middle state. That's axiomatic, logical and inevitable. You claim that everything that exists is also physical, do you not? Therefore, it cannot be the ...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:29 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

So either you affirm or you deny the existence of dynamics. That means that you're claiming that I both asserted "the existence of dynamics" and denied it. No, that means that logically you have to. :shock: Whether or not you choose to use those precise words only determines whether or not you're a...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:13 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

I understand how it's a possible view. Tell me about that. Tell me why you believe the B-view is actually plausible, rather than speculative at best, and wrong at worst. Because at the moment, it could well be the latter. And if you can't, then why even mention something you have no reason at all t...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:10 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

I asked you what the P was in my view that's supposedly contradictory and that's one of countless things you've ignored. Actually, I answered...directly and specifically. So perhaps you missed it. But feel free to track back and see. (Page 20, box ten, last three lines) Ah, yeah, I think I did miss...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:18 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

I asked you what the P was in my view that's supposedly contradictory and that's one of countless things you've ignored. Actually, I answered...directly and specifically. So perhaps you missed it. But feel free to track back and see. (Page 20, box ten, last three lines) We just got done explaining ...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:54 am
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

Age wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:49 am If...
Not bothering, Age.
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:24 am
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

Heh. :D You want a hypothetical that CAN'T be true? I wouldn't say it can't be true. There are very few things that I'd say couldn't be the case. Self-contradictory ones. They're never true. If anyone "doesn't agree with it," and yet calls themselves "Physicalists," then they have neither logic nor...
by Immanuel Can
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:16 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

Well, it seems to me that the conditional was pointless. Yeah, that would only be the case if you're not getting this. Heh. :D You want a hypothetical that CAN'T be true? "IF wishes were horses, beggars would ride." Likewise, "IF 'physical' meant 'unreal,' then Unrealist Physicalists would have a p...
by Immanuel Can
Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:35 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

I told you what physicalism is. It's the view that only physical things exist. That's it. Yes, so then you have to believe that, as you say... ...those forces are physical. So they're real, and they're "physical." So both the materials and dynamics are merely physical, meaning that the dynamics are...
by Immanuel Can
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:34 pm
Forum: General Philosophical Discussion
Topic: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother
Replies: 351
Views: 4114

Re: Free Will and Determinism Necessitate Eachother

Do you or do you not understand that physicalism is NOT.... No, don't tell me what it's "not." Tell me what it "is." Tell me how a Physicalist characterizes the forces that produce change and motion: are they "physical," or what? I told you what physicalism is. It's the view that only physical thin...