Search found 4332 matches

by Immanuel Can
Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:23 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

The god you call God is a god - an alleged super-being. Not so. As Socrates noted, when you have a bunch of "gods," they love different things, and so can never be the definers of what value is (see the famed Euthyphro Dialogue, if you want to check this.) However, if there is but one God, supreme ...
by Immanuel Can
Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:58 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

no loss or gain there: police will continue to be needed. Ideally, the police enforce laws that we have rational arguments to believe are right . When they don't, then that's the job of something more akin to the "secret police" -- the Stasi, the Gestapo, the Cheka...and so on. Now, there's some ex...
by Immanuel Can
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:56 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

You keep the conceptual; we'll take the pragmatic. The problem with that is that the pragmatic only "works" if a) you enforce it with power, not reason, and b) if nobody questions it...or is allowed to. So it's a bad recipe. In fact, taking the secular regimes of the 20th Century, the "pragmatic" o...
by Immanuel Can
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:37 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

No, I asks: Is it the case that god-given moral code has been, or is, or will be more effective in preserving human society than a moral code made for humans by humans? The answer to that, historically, is that there have been none of the latter. "A human told me" has never been an adequate reason ...
by Immanuel Can
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:32 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

P1: If morality is what a god desires, then morality is objective. P2: Morality is what a god desires. Conclusion: Therefore, morality is objective. The term "if" there is gratuitous. It adds nothing. The point was simply to show what was valid IF true, not to suppose that you personally are obliga...
by Immanuel Can
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:26 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

Then the morality that necessarily followed all the Monotheists - Jew, Christian, Muslim - would be: Thou shalt not enslave thy fellow man. That would be true of the first two, but unfortunately, not of the last one. Allah's quite different, I think you'll find. If there's an Islamic teaching about...
by Immanuel Can
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:05 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

Still waiting for that syllogism making sense of subjectivist morality.

Not seeing anything at all.
by Immanuel Can
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:03 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

Premise 1: God desires men to be free (we can add, if we follow Locke, it's for the reasons given earlier: but I'm keeping this very simple). Premise 2: Freedom is destroyed by slavery. Conclusion: Slavery is contrary to the desires of God. Simple, simple simple. And if the two premises are true, b...
by Immanuel Can
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:22 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

Immanuel Can 'You are making a separating [sic] in your thinking between "right" and "God's character and purposes." They are identical in my syllogism, because Theism regards them as identical. There is no conception of "right" that transcends or contradicts the character of God, in Monotheistic t...
by Immanuel Can
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:11 am
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

We have done nothing so far to show whether or not there are transcendent truths or moral truths Exactly. If you couldn't "find" any in 300 years, or 6000 years (civilization with writing) or 15,000 (agricultural and fishing settlement) or 50,000 years (nomadic tribal units) it's unlikely to happen...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:58 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

Your premises do not say that a god's purposes are morally right, so your conclusion that slavery is morally wrong because it goes against the god's purposes has not been established by the premises. So the inference is invalid. You are making a separating in your thinking between "right" and "God'...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:35 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

Not so. You misunderstand validity. The conclusion must be entaiied by the premises. And your premises don't establish that the purposes of a god are necessarily morally right or good. Actually, you're mixing up "validity" and "soundness." "Validity" entails no particular content-truthfulness: a sy...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:53 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

Your syllogism is invalid, This is not so. "Valid," in philosophy, refers specifically to the form of the argument, not to any of the content . The syllogism given follows the correct structure for a categorical syllogism, such that IF the premises are true, the conclusion necessarily follows by lo...
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:35 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

...the problem is very simple. Objectivists must show why a moral assertion, such as slavery is wrong ... Very easy to do. But you have to grant the major premise, which you do not, apparently. Premise 1: God judges mankind individually. Premise 2: The making of individual choices requires freedom....
by Immanuel Can
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:25 pm
Forum: Ethical Theory
Topic: What could make morality objective?
Replies: 87
Views: 464

Re: What could make morality objective?

No. The observer's report places no truth-value on any moral claim. There may be any number of objective truths, on any number of topics, but none of them make one moral precept more viable than another. That depends on what we mean by "objective truths." We have done nothing so far to show whether...