Dominance and submission

[petlover]

My boyfriend and I have been discussing trying BDSM, but we have come to a point where we cannot agree on something. I say I can submit to him and still have limits that I do not want to go past, but he says that if I truly submit that I give up all power to him and will do everything he asks of me, no matter what he asks. Who is right?

[Notvacka]

This is probably not the best forum for your question. There are lots of special interest sites on the web where you could get advice from people with experience.

However, I would say that it's highly advisable that you agree upon rules and limits before any BDSM play. And of course the limits are decided by the submissive party. Under no circumstance should you agree to do something that you feel uncomfortable doing. The point of pain in this context is that it should be pleasurable.

[ForgedinHell]

My boyfriend and I have been discussing trying BDSM, but we have come to a point where we cannot agree on something. I say I can submit to him and still have limits that I do not want to go past, but he says that if I truly submit that I give up all power to him and will do everything he asks of me, no matter what he asks. Who is right?

The sub is supposed to have the actual power, and under no circumstances does the other person abuse the sub. If he goes beyond what you consent to, that is a crime. My understanding is that BDSM gets a bad rap because people do have the misconception that it involves force as your boyfriend describes. He is not into BDSM but something else. My advise is to dump him, he's dangerous.

[The Voice of Time]

He is not into BDSM but something else. My advise is to dump him, he's dangerous.

Jumping to conclusions are we?

No, real BDSM is full submission, and yes you do have to do all he asks if you want to do full hardcore-style. But BDSM has many "derivations", you must understand.

To be in full power is a marvellous thing, such also to be the victim of it, although you'll have to have a strong spirit to endure it and still love your way through it, and that is what he wants. To my eye therefore his fancy is simply power, since the word "everything", which never actually means everything, but kind-of means "I want to see you do things because I say so and for that reason alone, I'm perverted in my mind to just make you do things". That is of course a guess, so try rather to ask him what is his peculiar fancy within the field.

And yes, this is the right forum, as philosophical counselling is just counselling a philosopher instead of another person, there is nothing "philosophical" about philosophic counselling that makes this topic non-philosophic, it's just to give a different kind of mind-set the chance to see and examine the problem at hand.

Although I've never done it, I've always, even from my childhood, had a fancy for BDSM-sex. Indeed, it was one of my first wet dreams to be controlled and ordered to do sometimes disgusting things at women's command. At my present age I feel an urge to release frustration into my sexual life and dominate my female partners physically and harshly, but not without tender, care and love, as it is all game when it happens, and all-true love afterwards.

I once remember, a girl giving me signs to finger her, I silently grabbed her throat in a trying but not really testing grip just to feel how it was to hold another person's life in your hands. I may add that I'm a tall powerfully built person, so the role falls naturally to me also.

Anywho, try not to do anything "just for Lolz" okay? Not if you are doing it with seriousness anyways.

[Bernard]

I'd suggest tennis.

[petlover]

Thanks for all the responses. They have really helped me in deciding what I should do. It all comes down to trusting him enough to know he would never ask me to do anything that would seriously hurt me or anything illegal. I have given him my total submission. Wish me luck!

[ForgedinHell]

He is not into BDSM but something else. My advise is to dump him, he's dangerous.

Jumping to conclusions are we?

No, real BDSM is full submission, and yes you do have to do all he asks if you want to do full hardcore-style. But BDSM has many "derivations", you must understand.

To be in full power is a marvellous thing, such also to be the victim of it, although you'll have to have a strong spirit to endure it and still love your way through it, and that is what he wants. To my eye therefore his fancy is simply power, since the word "everything", which never actually means everything, but kind-of means "I want to see you do things because I say so and for that reason alone, I'm perverted in my mind to just make you do things". That is of course a guess, so try rather to ask him what is his peculiar fancy within the field.

And yes, this is the right forum, as philosophical counselling is just counselling a philosopher instead of another person, there is nothing "philosophical" about philosophic counselling that makes this topic non-philosophic, it's just to give a different kind of mind-set the chance to see and examine the problem at hand.

Although I've never done it, I've always, even from my childhood, had a fancy for BDSM-sex. Indeed, it was one of my first wet dreams to be controlled and ordered to do sometimes disgusting things at women's command. At my present age I feel an urge to release frustration into my sexual life and dominate my female partners physically and harshly, but not without tender, care and love, as it is all game when it happens, and all-true love afterwards.

I once remember, a girl giving me signs to finger her, I silently grabbed her throat in a trying but not really testing grip just to feel how it was to hold another person's life in your hands. I may add that I'm a tall powerfully built person, so the role falls naturally to me also.

Anywho, try not to do anything "just for Lolz" okay? Not if you are doing it with seriousness anyways.

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I am stating what the law and morality is for the situation. A sub does not consent to be murdered, by merely consenting to being tied up and spanked, for example. It is a crime if the dominant does not release the sub when agreed upon, or goes beyond what the sub has consented to do. Not only is this the law, but this is the general BDSM culture. The power, ironically enough, rests with the sub, not the dominant. Asking for someone to consent to any abuse, without limit, that is going beyond the realm of decency, and is criminal, it is also mentally disturbing.

[The Voice of Time]

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I am stating what the law and morality is for the situation. A sub does not consent to be murdered, by merely consenting to being tied up and spanked, for example. It is a crime if the dominant does not release the sub when agreed upon, or goes beyond what the sub has consented to do. Not only is this the law, but this is the general BDSM culture. The power, ironically enough, rests with the sub, not the dominant. Asking for someone to consent to any abuse, without limit, that is going beyond the realm of decency, and is criminal, it is also mentally disturbing.

there is always a limit. The word "everything" doesn't mean "everything", it is just a way of speaking. Real harm, like breaking a leg, shalln't happen of course, right about that, although damages that aren't permanent or doesn't affect daily life can occur (including cutting with sharp objects, which if you're already a bit fucked up isn't anything besides normal). Anywho, I forgot to mention the recipe for putting a limit to the word "everything", and that is the signal of boundary, the "password" as you might call it, to end the game. Any word you choose before-hand which when spoken, and the dominant must always give you the chance to say it so nothing bad happens, which when spoken tells him that he has gone too far.

But as I said, the reason why we use the word "everything" is because pre-defining a limit is turn-off, so don't do that if you're serious about things.

One should also watch some BDSM movies before trying oneself, as that may show, especially the sexual part, how to make it a game that profits both people. The best such movie of all times is "Fashionista", and I won't spoil anything more than that, just search it up, it's available on ThePirateBay.se (I got it from there)

[ForgedinHell]

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I am stating what the law and morality is for the situation. A sub does not consent to be murdered, by merely consenting to being tied up and spanked, for example. It is a crime if the dominant does not release the sub when agreed upon, or goes beyond what the sub has consented to do. Not only is this the law, but this is the general BDSM culture. The power, ironically enough, rests with the sub, not the dominant. Asking for someone to consent to any abuse, without limit, that is going beyond the realm of decency, and is criminal, it is also mentally disturbing.

there is always a limit. The word "everything" doesn't mean "everything", it is just a way of speaking. Real harm, like breaking a leg, shalln't happen of course, right about that, although damages that aren't permanent or doesn't affect daily life can occur (including cutting with sharp objects, which if you're already a bit fucked up isn't anything besides normal). Anywho, I forgot to mention the recipe for putting a limit to the word "everything", and that is the signal of boundary, the "password" as you might call it, to end the game. Any word you choose before-hand which when spoken, and the dominant must always give you the chance to say it so nothing bad happens, which when spoken tells him that he has gone too far.

But as I said, the reason why we use the word "everything" is because pre-defining a limit is turn-off, so don't do that if you're serious about things.

One should also watch some BDSM movies before trying oneself, as that may show, especially the sexual part, how to make it a game that profits both people. The best such movie of all times is "Fashionista", and I won't spoil anything more than that, just search it up, it's available on ThePirateBay.se (I got it from there)

But, the questions was whether she should submit with no limits. My answer was no. Now, you are agreeing with me that such consent would be inappropriate, but still stick with your previous answer based on a belief that "everything" does not really mean "everything". If that is the case, then he should be agreeable to limits, in advance, should he not? The fact is the request did cause this user some concern about her safety, and that should never be an issue. Otherwise, the BDSM movement crosses the line and gets closer to the public's misconception that they are all rapists. And, the reality is, some of these people are into rape and brutality. There do exist vids showing people being killed in order to promote sexual gratification. I think they are in the minority, and those people are not right in the head. Giving someone like that a free pass on doing everything he wants is potenatially an act of suicide.

[The Voice of Time]

I addressed why they should not focus on that in advance, least of course they find out their derivation-style of BDSM, and sticks to that style (or taste as you may call it)... you have some tendency to question the same answers which I already have supplied you ^^

And yeah, there are some pretty crazy stuff out there... try Pain Olympics if you want to know how it looks like when a guy chops of his own stuff just for fun ^^

But as you also said, that's not what these people are about. And she did not express a fear for safety, she just didn't want to do everything. Why do you assume the worst? It's just a couple playing around with ideas... Logic doesn't follow you into this realm, on the contrary, most of it is highly irrational and illogical, I might add, as your first couple of sentences seemed to point out a logic which to this kind of thinking isn't entirely valid.

It's also about how it feels and looks like. At the bottom it's all manipulation of feeling and the stream of consciousness. Some people are even addicted to their own fear, because it provides a drug against numbness (I know, personally), and as such her boyfriend could for instance, if that was their style, strangle her, making her think that he's going to kill her or otherwise deplete her of her life-energy (most people despair simply by the lack of power and air, and the despair can be intoxicating). But for somebody who just plays around this is something which needs to be taught thoroughly before the game gets good.

And by the way: there's nothing wrong about rape as a game ^^ it's just typical. Large parts of BDSM styles, as I've seen it, are just games similar to rape in that one part is defenceless while the other is the predator.

[Atthet]

My boyfriend and I have been discussing trying BDSM, but we have come to a point where we cannot agree on something. I say I can submit to him and still have limits that I do not want to go past, but he says that if I truly submit that I give up all power to him and will do everything he asks of me, no matter what he asks. Who is right?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9426

"Human Rights" is a code word for absolute Slavery, slavery of all people, all histories, and all cultures.

You are human, and in becoming "human", you have destroyed your gender, in addition to your race. You have no past, and therefore, cannot have a known or predictable future.

Are people born human or made human?

This should be rephrased to:

Are people born slaves or made slaves?


The metamorphosis of humanism is complete. What we see in "all are born human", is instead, "all are born slaves". The term "God" is no longer necessary, and this was the goal of Judaeo-Christianity all along. Atheism is result, the final conclusion, of Western Civilization. The slave, all slaves of men and women across the earth, no longer deny their slavery, because slavery-itself does not exist.

All are "free".

Free to be slaves to Human Rights. We can see then, that nobody, not one person on this "philosophy forum", would ever dare to question the basic premises and proponents of their deepest ideological values. Their values, are set, and permanent. They will defend their slavery, their slavishness, to the death. And slaves will die, to maintain their slavery.

This is known as the "liberal Status Quo of Western Civilization". The Status Quo is that slaves ought to have a meager portion of gruel, water, and "free sexual expression" amongst their own kind. The Status Quo is that we "must never judge" the sexual indiscretion of the slave class of the world. The slaves can have sex with animals, corpses, and each other, in a great orgy, freely, and this is the "highest freedom" known to history.

Meanwhile, the Master Slave Dialect is complete. The slave is no longer aware, on any level, of their predetermined course, through their entire lives.

Reality T.V. is reality. This is the end of "human evolution".

[The Voice of Time]

Atthet, the content of your post does not address any issue in this thread. Alas, it's useless garbage here. Stick to your original thread if you'd be kind.

[Kayla]

My boyfriend and I have been discussing trying BDSM, but we have come to a point where we cannot agree on something. I say I can submit to him and still have limits that I do not want to go past, but he says that if I truly submit that I give up all power to him and will do everything he asks of me, no matter what he asks. Who is right?

at a minimum draw the limits at scat

[johngalthasspoken]

50 shades of nonsense

[reasonvemotion]

at a minimum draw the limits at scat

What does that mean?