Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 8:00 pm
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 4:44 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 3:45 pm
If they're not responding to objective moral truths, then what they are doing is exactly what Nietzsche said: merely imposing their will on us, using pure power, and nothing more. They have no legitimacy.
If they are elected politicians, they do.
Where is the code that says "elections" count?
I imagine it's written in the law somewhere. Everyone seems to abide by the same rules, unless they are called Trump, of course, so it seems they must exist.
I thought you said there were no objective moral truths; therefore, it can't be immoral to deprive somebody of their vote, and it can't be moral to care about elections.
I never said morality didn't exist, I just said objective moral truth doesn't exist.
IC wrote:Harbal wrote:And are you ever going to shut up about Nietzsche?
Well, if you want me to shut up about one of the most consistent Subjectivists who's ever lived, I guess I could...but no, I probably won't.
As you wish.
IC wrote:Harbal wrote:You didn't say what, and what absurdity are you attempting to portray me as creating?
Your wording. Go back and read what you wrote, if you've forgotten.
If I was being absurd, I don't particularly want to remind myself about it.
IC wrote:Please demonstrate why there would be no structure, or rules.
Because Subjectivism provides no grounds at all for any such thing. Any "rules" or "structure," then, has to be purely arbitrary and amoral. It cannot possibly be obligatory for anybody to pay any attention to either.
We have laws that are secular, and make no claim of being informed by objective moral truth, but are nevertheless obligatory. Try knocking a policeman's hat off, if you don't believe me, and while you are waiting to be dealt with at the police station, scan your Bible and see if you can find anything about the moral status of abusing police property, particularly when a policeman is wearing it.
IC wrote:Harbal wrote:Thank you for the lecture on what it is like to live in my own country.
Well, you didn't really seem to know.
I may not seem to know, but you actually don't know.
I guess life in Yorkshire is pretty provincial...but maybe you'd be wise to take a trip to Rotherham or Birmingham or somewhere in the heart of London. You could always stand on a street corner and yell, "Allah is a fraud."
It would be considerably more dangerous for me to stay where I am and yell, "I love Margaret Thatcher".
And then we'll see if the post-Protestant belief in freedom of speech holds up or not.
When did freedom of speech become the topic of conversation? But, just to go along with it, how would standing on a street corner a couple of hundred years ago, shouting, "Jesus was a wanker", have gone down?