Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue

[Gary Childress]

For those who contributed to my bike fund — thanks! This AM I just topped US$13,000.00!

I am moved right down to my soul.

Congrats!

[attofishpi]

For those who contributed to my bike fund — thanks! This AM I just topped US$13,000.00!

I am moved right down to my soul.

Congrats!

Seriously. Who the fuck donates to some kunt they don't even know such that they can buy a $13000 bike? where the only motor is the kunt pushing ?peddles ? SERIOUSLY. what the fuck is this shit?

[Gary Childress]

For those who contributed to my bike fund — thanks! This AM I just topped US$13,000.00!

I am moved right down to my soul.

Congrats!

Seriously. Who the fuck donates to some kunt they don't even know such that they can buy a $13000 bike? where the only motor is the kunt pushing ?peddles ? SERIOUSLY. what the fuck is this shit?

Snake oil sells. Honesty doesn't.

[attofishpi]

Congrats!

Seriously. Who the fuck donates to some kunt they don't even know such that they can buy a $13000 bike? where the only motor is the kunt pushing ?peddles ? SERIOUSLY. what the fuck is this shit?

Snake oil sells. Honesty doesn't.

The equivalent of a PASTOR peddling shite. (PASTOR = ROT_SAP...seems God system takes the piss out of pastors)

[Alexis Jacobi]

For those who contributed to my bike fund — thanks! This AM I just topped US$13,000.00!

I am moved right down to my soul.

Congrats!

Seriously. Who the fuck donates to some kunt they don't even know such that they can buy a $13000 bike? where the only motor is the kunt pushing ?peddles ? SERIOUSLY. what the fuck is this shit?

No, the bike I just paid for only cost $7,250.00

I am after all economy-minded.

With the rest (thanks again!) I think we have decided to visit seaside Cefalù in Sicily for 2 weeks when the weather warms.

I’ll be sending postcards you can count on it!

[attofishpi]

Congrats!

Seriously. Who the fuck donates to some kunt they don't even know such that they can buy a $13000 bike? where the only motor is the kunt pushing ?peddles ? SERIOUSLY. what the fuck is this shit?

No, the bike I just paid for only cost $7,250.00

I am after all economy-minded.

With the rest (thanks again!) I think we have decided to visit seaside Cefalù in Sicily for 2 weeks when the weather warms.

I’ll be sending postcards you can count on it!

Mate...who am I to snag yer peddles?

[Alexis Jacobi]

what the fuck is this shit?

The Question of the Ages ….

[Gary Childress]

what the fuck is this shit?

The Question of the Ages ….

So, AJ, do you believe the God of the Bible exists, or are you agnostic? I assume you're not an atheist?

[attofishpi]

what the fuck is this shit?

The Question of the Ages ….

There is no point asking a question of such unless it is directed to the sages.

[Alexis Jacobi]

what the fuck is this shit?

The Question of the Ages ….

So, AJ, do you believe the God of the Bible exists, or are you agnostic? I assume you're not an atheist?

The creation we are in, the manifest Kosmos, is I believe (feel, intuit, reason) the creation of (let’s say) a supreme intelligence. I accept that “reality” cannot — does not — exist without that •intelligence•. So in this sense I am not an atheist. But am I a theist?

Because of my own spiritual experiences it would be very hard for me to deny (if I can put it like this) a Providential power the nature of which I cannot fathom. Yet I know it through effects (experiences, realizations) and certainty what Jung called •synchronicities•.

My response would be that such experiences can be beckoned. And that there is (let’s say) a science to that. Yet all of this is internal to man. Yet — and strangely — whatever *it* is does appear (manifest) externally, sometimes in very odd and surprising ways.

You will be very hard-pressed to explain (in your case even to know remotely) what •the God of the Bible• is. There are many pictures or glances of this God recorded in those disparate books.

So to know that God one would have to turn to (for example) those who have dedicated their lives to the endeavor. What do they say?

What I myself might say is that, yes, The Bible is a work that reveals a historical relationship, an unfolding of understanding. I would say that what it *is* starts with Hosea. But to explain what I mean is another question.

What I am learning comes to me indirectly through talking with extraordinary ignoramuses, breathtaking in their hard nut to crack dullness and lack of literary and theological backgrounding. The lesson? You have to delve far more deeply into the innards of these problems before you can pronounce on them (as the pronouncers do indeed pronounce).

Christian theology is where the gold is. It is the work that has been done in relation to the (so-called) Revelation.

Still, the question of What kind of a reality we are in and especially the ethical imperatives — these are the most knotty issues. Christianity has done more substantial and relevant work in this area than any other religion. Fact.

[Gary Childress]

The Question of the Ages ….

So, AJ, do you believe the God of the Bible exists, or are you agnostic? I assume you're not an atheist?

The creation we are in, the manifest Kosmos, is I believe (feel, intuit, reason) the creation of (let’s say) a supreme intelligence. I accept that “reality” cannot — does not — exist without that •intelligence•. So in this sense I am not an atheist. But am I a theist?

Because of my own spiritual experiences it would be very hard for me to deny (if I can put it like this) a Providential power the nature of which I cannot fathom. Yet I know it through effects (experiences, realizations) and certainty what Jung called •synchronicities•.

My response would be that such experiences can be beckoned. And that there is (let’s say) a science to that. Yet all of this is internal to man. Yet — and strangely — whatever *it* is does appear (manifest) externally, sometimes in very odd and surprising ways.

You will be very hard-pressed to explain (in your case even to know remotely) what •the God of the Bible• is. There are many pictures or glances of this God recorded in those disparate books.

So to know that God one would have to turn to (for example) those who have dedicated their lives to the endeavor. What do they say?

What I myself might say is that, yes, The Bible is a work that reveals a historical relationship, an unfolding of understanding. I would say that what it *is* starts with Hosea. But to explain what I mean is another question.

What I am learning comes to me indirectly through talking with extraordinary ignoramuses, breathtaking in their hard nut to crack dullness and lack of literary and theological backgrounding. The lesson? You have to delve far more deeply into the innards of these problems before you can pronounce on them (as the pronouncers do indeed pronounce).

Christian theology is where the gold is. It is the work that has been done in relation to the (so-called) Revelation.

Still, the question of What kind of a reality we are in and especially the ethical imperatives — these are the most knotty issues. Christianity has done more substantial and relevant work in this area than any other religion. Fact.

Your hubris is extraordinary. But that's between you and God, I suppose.

[phyllo]

God created nature.
If man's "impositions" are anti-natural, then they are against God's creation and God's intent.

Yes, the story goes that •God created Nature• and a terrifying, cruel, brutal and deadly system. Were a man to do what any of nature’s creatures do, he’d be imprisoned for life.

Do you see the point? If God created this, then God is really a sort of demon, not the •all loving God•.

Christianity, at its very essence, is anti-nature in the sense I am pointing out (with inexplicable difficulty getting through).

Christianity (and other religious philosophies) says •Don’t do it Nature’s way. Don’t imitate Nature. Act differently.•

The Nietzschean philosophy — an extremely powerful Ubermenchian sage has just appeared among us (Lorikeet: philosophy’s uber-parakeet) — is, essentially, the recognition that how Life really is, is not the way Christian morality says it is or should be. It is, let’s say, realistic, modern, and in tune with biological and scientific outlooks.

It is therefore anti-Christian.

You tell me what •God’s intent• is if the natural world is that intention for man.

The Christian proposition is of a radical opposition; a direct contradiction. It says essentially that there is a way out of the terrible problem of life’s impossible conflicts.

Take that as you will. But this is the basis of opposition to the entire Christian metaphysical way.

Lorikeet (one among many) is explaining this in detail. His Teaching is that of the wisdom of the Enlightened Ubermench.

The Eagle does not scream, he clearly enunciates ….

Ha! Ha! — the clapping of philosophical thunder …

God didn't create a lion to act like a monkey. It's not appropriate for a man to act like some other creature.

To say that nature is not good or that God is "a sort of demon" is to put man's own judgement above the judgement of God.

A "radical opposition" is a false idea. What is required is an integration with God and nature. That was the way in the garden which was lost and ought to be regained.

Jesus came to bring about that integration.

[Dubious]

Nature has the plan that you and everyone observes. We call that •nature• and •the natural world•. Man’s impositions — those of Christianity more specifically — are anti-natural. They contradict natural predicates.

Not in the least. It only proves that nature doesn't have a plan.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Exactly in that sense I refer to the meta-natural. It is no part of the natural systems of the Earth, and only enters the world through and with man.

Your hang up (I’ll skip over the most egregious) (:::embarrassed blush:::) is that when I refer to the metaphysical you imagine I refer to something outside of all creation, or reality.

If •nature has no plans• but man brings •plans• into the world it is in this exact sense that I mean.

But really your largest issue, I’d imagine, is that you have no means to conceive of God in any sense, neither Aristotelean or Christian. So you will not give your assent to any of this.

[Alexis Jacobi]

God didn't create a lion to act like a monkey. It's not appropriate for a man to act like some other creature.

Man is an upright-walking tool-making killer-ape.

Man becomes human when man encounters a radically different current of possibilities.

To say that nature is not good or that God is "a sort of demon" is to put man's own judgement above the judgement of God.

I described nature as it is: an utterly cruel system. Go to deep jungle. Sit yourself down. A swarm of marauding army ants will pass along and devour all your flesh without the slightest concern. That principle, that reality, runs through all nature, everywhere.

It is not •angelic• and in the language at our disposal if I say it is •demonic• I am only drawing the comparison. Nature is neither good nor bad — and certainly not evil.

But then — what does the devil (the demoniac, Satan) really refer to? In one sense it is the natural realm. I am not inventing this view. It was explored in detail in the 19th century.

A "radical opposition" is a false idea. What is required is an integration with God and nature. That was the way in the garden which was lost and ought to be regained.

No, it really isn’t. Christianity — the ultimate innards of the philosophy — is and always has been understood to be radicalism.

I do not disagree with notions of integration however. And man has no other option but to cooperate with earthly systems.

The “garden” refers to an immortal state that can only be recovered (according to the Christian story) after translation to that deathless realm they call ‘heaven’.

Though I do under your modification.

Jesus came to bring about that integration.

What? The story says that he came to restore man to a deathless condition in another realm of being.

Do you have a different translation of the Bible?!?