Conjecture: the real part of Western Astrology

[Atla]

Let's try something else, like an annoying Astrology thread. In my estimation, about 30% of Western Astrology is real and about 70% of it is made-up, depends on how we count.

The made-up part: everything to do with the sky, with cosmic influences, with predicting the future using these. Planetary positions, magical powers of celestial bodies, charts, Moon signs, Rising signs, constellations, animals and objects associated with Sun signs, predicting life events etc. This is of course all made-up, no need to elaborate.

The real part: seasonal biology. In places with 4 seasons, there is a yearly cycle how the seasons biologically affect the human body. Especially considering that Homo evolved in Africa for millions of years under constant summer, so the 4 seasons are still somewhat of an anomaly for the human body.

Even as adults, many of us feel somewhat different every few weeks, as we are affected by changes in temperature, amount of sunlight, hormone levels, winter vitamine deficiencies etc. This is probably even more true for the more sensitive embryos and newborns. It probably matters a lot what kind of influences we receive when we are around 4-7 months old embryos as our brains are getting hardwired, and what kind of environmental influences we receive when we are born and shortly after that.

So we probably have a yearly cycle of hardwired, mild personality differences. The effect is getting smaller now with Global warming, and the "Sun signs" are reversed on the Southern hemisphere. Western Astrology doesn't work for people born near the equator and the poles. Europe and the US are mostly on the right latitudes, that's why Western Astrology is so popular there.

This whole seasonal biology effect isn't very big anyway, but easily statistically significant enough for many people to notice it.

Western Astrology misinterprets the above as "Sun signs", and strictly divides the year into 12 parts, but in reality, it's a continuous year-long change. Having 24 or 36 signs would be much more accurate. Decan astrology does something like that, it divides every sign into 3 sub-signs, is therefore probably the most accurate attempt.

This is why the Sun sign descriptions are often eerily accurate, and even some people who are generally skeptics about everything, are sometimes left scratching their heads. This is indeed relevant to relationships, compatibilities, influences how relationships may play out in the future.

Scientific refutations were mostly concerned with the made-up parts of Western Astrology. What they need to do instead, is pick people who developed as embryos and were born at the right latitudes (sharply different 4 seasons), and were born in the middle of their Sun signs (no preterm and postterm births), and are unfamiliar with Western Astrology so they aren't biased. And then evaluate the 12 groups psychologically, looking for patterns, similarities, but this is the hardest part as Western Astrology has misunderstood and sugarcoated the mild psychological oddities of the signs quite a lot, so it needs to be established first what exactly to look for.

[Impenitent]

if you were born under a star sign, you will believe that the reading of the stars is another sign



some signs are better than others

-Imp

[Atla]

Some signs have it tough. For example China is also on the right latitudes so Western Astrology is spreading there, and now Virgos have a harder time finding jobs there because of this. It's called "zodiac discrimination".

(Then again, Prince Harry is a Virgo..)

[Alexiev]

I once had a girlfriend who was a world-famous astrologer. Her expertise was Hellenistic astrology (that's from the Greek period after Alexander the Great). The Greeks learned astrology from the conquered Persians, and Ptolemy, the Egyptian Greek mathematician, astronomer and astrologer was a leading pre-Roman intellectual. My friend had a PhD. in Classics, taught at a University, and was probably, more intellectually accomplished than anyone posting here. I once got to stay in the visiting faculty rooms at Brasenose College (Oxford University) when she gave lectures there.

I never got a reading from her, but my skeptic friends who did said it was an enlightening and strange experience. She would say that astrology is not a science that can predict the future, but the mythic archetypes it involves can help people understand themselves and their options. She may have been down-playing the predictive nature of astrology to me because she knew I am a science-oriented skeptic.

Like alchemy, astrology sounds bizarre to the modern, scientific mind. But it was the foundation of modern science, and although its appeal to modern people is strange, bad-mouthing earlier practitioners is anti-intellectual. Astrology created the foundations of modern astronomy; alchemy of modern experimental science. Alchemy -- which sound so strange to us -- is less bizarre when we think of Aristotle's "four elements" theory of physics (earth, air, fire and water). If everything could be created from these four elements, why not precious metals? The reputed first computer (the antikythera device) was discovered in a sunken ship on the bottom of the Mediterranean, and was designed to make astrological judgements predicting the movement of the stars. (My only involvement with astrology was editing a paper on this device my friend wrote, which I've mainly forgotten now).

The Church had mixed feelings about astrology. It was sometimes considered heretical, but many European churches from the Middle Ages are replete with astrological paintings and tapestries. IN addition, the word "Magi" can be translated as "astrologer", and the Star of Bethlehem is an astrological sign.

Plotinus, the neo-platonic philosopher, writes that it is obvious that astrological predictions are correct, but indeterminate whether they are causal or merely predictive. He starts his essay with this throw-away line, and never offers his reasoning, but he was a very smart guy.

Astrology collapsed when Copernicus invalidated the astronomy on which it was based, and then was revived in the late 19th century along with other forms of mysticism (mediums, knuckle crackers, etc.). My friend was contemptuous of newspaoer "sun-sign astrology". She thought you needed exact birth times to make accurate readings.

Sorry for running on, but I thought some members might be interested.

[Atla]

but the mythic archetypes it involves can help people understand themselves and their options. She may have been down-playing the predictive nature of astrology to me because she knew I am a science-oriented skeptic.

Once we know the psychological profiles of the Sun signs, and combine this knowledge with all the other psychological aspects we know about someone, and the knowledge about their life circumstances etc., it becomes much easier to explain their pasts and presents, and calculate their likely future life trajectories, see their personal options in life.

Even after this knowledge gets mixed with made-up stuff from other parts of Astrology, there will be more truth to it than what "should" be possible.

[Alexis Jacobi]

The real part: seasonal biology. In places with 4 seasons, there is a yearly cycle how the seasons biologically affect the human body. Especially considering that Homo evolved in Africa for millions of years under constant summer, so the 4 seasons are still somewhat of an anomaly for the human body.

But this has nothing to do with the •astrology•.

[Atla]

The real part: seasonal biology. In places with 4 seasons, there is a yearly cycle how the seasons biologically affect the human body. Especially considering that Homo evolved in Africa for millions of years under constant summer, so the 4 seasons are still somewhat of an anomaly for the human body.

But this has nothing to do with the •astrology•.

It could be why a part of Astrology actually works.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Acausal connection principle

A key signature concept in Jung’s vision of the world, synchronicity was defined by Jung as an acausal connecting principle, whereby internal, psychological events are linked to external world events by meaningful coincidences rather than causal chains. While of profound theoretical significance, anecdotal clinical evidence served as primary descriptive examples in Jung’s writing. Perhaps the most well-known case involved a patient’s dream of being given a piece of gold jewelry in the shape of a scarab beetle being told as a knocking on Jung’s consulting room window drew his attention to a scarabaeid beetle (a rose-chafer) seeking entry. Jung caught the beetle, handed it to the patient which had a positive, transformative impact on the case, as it broke through her defensive rationalism according to Jung.

Jung wrote: "The East bases much of its science on this irregularity and considers coincidences as the reliable basis of the world rather than causality. Synchronism is the prejudice of the East; causality is the modern prejudice of the West. The more we busy ourselves with dreams, the more we shall see such coincidences—chances. Remember that the oldest Chinese scientific book [the I Ching] is about the possible chances of life".

[Atla]

There could be a grain of truth to acausality/synchronicity, after all the universe as a whole seems to be acausal/synchronous, but we probably see very little of this manifested in our everyday lives. Yes there could be some truth to parapsychology, due to entanglement for example which is synchronous. Our minds may be kinda synchronized with the rest of the world including other people, and sometimes this could lead to some uncanny insights, experiences.

But on the everyday, "classical", human scale, this effect is probably very small from our perspective (explains less then 3% of someone's psychology, experiences), if it exists at all. My conjecture is based on causality and is about an effect that's much stronger than that.