seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
risaperis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:44 pm
Consciousness remains confounding
The "brain in a vat" is a philosophical thought experiment often used to explore questions about the nature of reality, perception, and knowledge....
...Just imagine a brain in a vat with no external stimuli.
It seems obvious (to me, anyway) that whenever you sleep at night, just like the vat scenario, your brain resides in a nutrient-rich environment that is cut off from any outside stimuli,...
But, the brain is not 'cut off' from the stimuli.
The brain for most part is just not aware/not conscious of what stimuli it is that is being fed into it.
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
...yet "something" within your brain perceives vast, oftentimes, bizarre vistas of reality (in the form of dreams) that seem almost as real as the reality that one perceives while awake.
Is it the brain 'perceiving' these things, or is it just the previously captured and stored stimuli, which is already held within the brain, that is making (up) 'the dreams', which can be a 'perceived', at the time, 'reality'?
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
So, as far as the thought experiment goes, other than shape, what's the difference between what is normally thought of as a "vat" and that of a sleeping human body?
I am not yet aware of 'the brain in the vat experiment', but I would not be at all surprised if all it really shows and/or proves is that just what is 'thought', by an 'actual thing', (a brain, and its actual surroundings, for this experiment), could be completely imaginary, but the 'actual thing' with 'the thoughts' has to exist.
risaperis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:44 pm
Does the brain have consciousness?
No, the brain (an organized collection of quantum particles) does not have consciousness.[/quote]
Well if this is true, then absolutely nothing in the physical Universe has 'consciousness', considering the fact that all of these things are a so-called 'organized collection of quantum particles'.
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
It's the self-aware
"I Am-ness" that sits at the throne of the mind that has consciousness.
So, to "seeds" anyway, there is a so-called 'I am-ness', a 'mind', and 'consciousness'.
And, well again to "seeds" anyway, the 'I am-ness' 'sits at the throne', like 'God', 'I' suppose, or is 'at the lead', as some might say, of some 'mind', which both the 'I am-ness' and 'the mind' can, obviously, not be physical at all, and which it is 'the mind' that, somehow, has 'consciousness', itself, or that the, so-called, 'I am-ness' 'has consciousness'.
Now, 'I' wonder if "seeds" will explain to 'us' here who and what the 'I am-ness' is, exactly, what the 'mind' is, exactly, and what 'consciousness' is, exactly?
If "seeds" does not, then 'I' wonder if "seeds" expects any of 'the readers' here to have absolutely any clue or idea about what 'it' is, exactly, that "seeds" is talking about or referring to here, now?
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
Brains are simply the means by which an
"I Am-ness/soul" (with its accompanying mind) is awakened into existence.
Although part of this may well be irrefutably True, with the other part being absolutely False, then this explains and shows why 'you' are still not yet HERE "seeds".
Would you like to now explain how and why you think or believe that there are 'many minds'?
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
risaperis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:44 pm
It seems that consciousness arises from both external stimuli and perception of that stimuli.
Again, while asleep, there is no "external" stimuli, yet the perception of dream phenomena by "something" conscious takes place.
Again, there are always external stimuli going to the brain, that the brain might not 'be awake', or 'not aware/not conscious', of what is being 'fed' to it, is another matter. The senses of the body are always accepting or 'being fed' external to the body stimuli.
risaperis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:44 pm
Is there an internal reality that all brains have?
Other than biological processes, brains don't have internal realities. No, minds have internal realities.[/quote]
And, once again, what are 'minds', exactly?
Obviously, anyone can cut open a human head and find and see 'a brain', but if you were to cut open a human body "seeds" tell 'us' where 'we' would find and see 'a mind'. Inform 'us' of what the 'mind' is, exactly, how does 'it' work, exactly, and what does 'it' do, exactly?
Once 'you' start informing 'us' of things like this, then 'we' will know that 'you' actually know what 'you' keep talking about here.
Until then you are just stating and claiming things of which you have no actual proof for, let alone have any actual evidence for.
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
Indeed, as you stand on the earth and look out into the universe, you are witnessing (from a "fetal-like" perspective) the degree to which the infinitely malleable fabric of mind can be willfully organized by the mind's owner.
So, you claim that 'you' 'have a mind'. Therefore, when 'we' look out into the Universe, Itself, 'we' are, supposedly, witnessing what "seeds" has willfully organized. Which, considering that "seeds" only came into Existence at a relatively 'nothing amount of time' ago, this claim is obviously False considering that the Universe is a little bit older than "seeds", itself.
Now, what 'you' are trying to say, and mean, may well be irrefutably True and Right, but 'you' are still some way from 'that', yet.
However, if you just started 'letting go' of 'that', which you have absolutely no proof of nor for, then you can, and will, learn and see how what 'it' is that 'you', essentially, already have experienced, and thus do know, is absolutely True, Right, Accurate, and Correct.
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
Again, brains are simply the means by which a new soul (with its accompanying mind) can be awakened into existence.
But, you, souls, people, human beings, animals, plants, nor anything else does not have a so-called 'accompanying mind'. Human beings, however, have thoughts. Some thoughts are True and Right, and some are certainly not.
Now, how to distinguish between the two, by the way, is a, really, very simple and easy thing to do.
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
risaperis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:44 pm
How is our reality truly constructed?
Our own inward reality is constructed from the living (holographic-like) fabric of our own autonomous minds.
'now', "seed's" claims that 'minds' are 'autonomous'. Although there is a, supposed, 'I am-ness', that 'sits at the throne of', and that, supposedly, 'has a mind'.
seeds wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 pm
On the other hand, the outer reality of the universe (including our bodies and brains) is constructed from the living fabric of yet another autonomous mind (a mind just like ours) whose conscious "agent/I Am-ness" has matured to the point of now representing the
"adult" version of what we (its literal "offspring") are destined to become like, sometime in the infinite depths of eternity.
It's almost too simple.
_______
Yet, you fail time after time to explain how what you claim is true could even be true.
And, the reason why you fail is because some of what you believe is true is, just simply, not true at all.
All of these posters here like "seeds", "dontaskme", "attofishpi", "lacewing", and the others who have 'had experiences', and have 'come-to-know' some things, which are irrefutably True and Right, but which other posters here will mock and ridicule, do not yet realize, fully, that they are all talking about and referring to the 'exact same Thing'.
If only they could just 'let go' of 'those other things' that they believe or presume are true, but which are certainly not, and which the belief and presumption of is what is holding them back from learning, understanding, seeing, and knowing how and why what they 'centrally' believe is true is absolutely and irrefutably the whole and actual Truth here.
Instead of these posters 'working together', which will prove, once and for all, what they are each individually saying and claiming, they 'work against' each other, which is only delaying the inevitable exposing and revealing of the actual irrefutable Truth.
I have offered numerous times already to help out here in order to get to the actual Truth, but these posters want to do it alone. It is is like they want to take or get 'personal credit' or 'personal acknowledgment' for something here.
They seem to appear to not yet realize that absolutely every thing that they have to come to discover, learn, understand, and know is because of the human beings that came before them.
Once the actual Truth is revealed, and thus known, there is absolutely not one human being who could take credit for this.
Now, if absolutely anyone would like to 'work together' in uncovering, exposing, and revealing the absolute and irrefutable Truths of Life, and living, then let 'us' do this NOW.