free will, determinism, and necessity...

[Sculptor]

I just watched a video about an old man talking about automatic car keys that only work on your car and it got me thinking, "Yes, we are the ones who push the button when we want the car to unlock but it was already predetermined to work on only your car." So inasmuch as you control the key to your car, someone already programmed it that when you're ready you can use it to do whatever you want on your own car. You can think of this in line with the quote "man is free everywhere in chains."

We have the free will to go to where we've been predetermined (given the capacity) to go or we can freely choose to stay where we are.

Free will is never having to do the bidding of others, and I am 100% determined to act freely whenever it is appropriate to what and who I am.

[Belinda]

I just watched a video about an old man talking about automatic car keys that only work on your car and it got me thinking, "Yes, we are the ones who push the button when we want the car to unlock but it was already predetermined to work on only your car." So inasmuch as you control the key to your car, someone already programmed it that when you're ready you can use it to do whatever you want on your own car. You can think of this in line with the quote "man is free everywhere in chains."

We have the free will to go to where we've been predetermined (given the capacity) to go or we can freely choose to stay where we are.

One's ability to choose is curtailed by our physical strength e.g.a newborn baby cannot choose to go anywhere, and neither can a man with a broken thigh bone.Choice is also restricted by lack of information and by poor critical ability. Lack of choice is restricted by lack of charisma; some people are not as popular as others.
There are occasions when a lucky individual has several good alternatives and the power to select what he likes. This power is not chosen ; determinism is not fair, with determinsm each event is a necessary event.
Freedom is much to be desiired and we can help each other to be more (or less )free by our political decisions.

[Splittingcheese]

I just watched a video about an old man talking about automatic car keys that only work on your car and it got me thinking, "Yes, we are the ones who push the button when we want the car to unlock but it was already predetermined to work on only your car." So inasmuch as you control the key to your car, someone already programmed it that when you're ready you can use it to do whatever you want on your own car. You can think of this in line with the quote "man is free everywhere in chains."

We have the free will to go to where we've been predetermined (given the capacity) to go or we can freely choose to stay where we are.

One's ability to choose is curtailed by our physical strength e.g.a newborn baby cannot choose to go anywhere, and neither can a man with a broken thigh bone.Choice is also restricted by lack of information and by poor critical ability. Lack of choice is restricted by lack of charisma; some people are not as popular as others.
There are occasions when a lucky individual has several good alternatives and the power to select what he likes. This power is not chosen ; determinism is not fair, with determinsm each event is a necessary event.
Freedom is much to be desiired and we can help each other to be more (or less )free by our political decisions.

I very much agree with this but i wouldn't put political decisions above familial ones

[Splittingcheese]

I just watched a video about an old man talking about automatic car keys that only work on your car and it got me thinking, "Yes, we are the ones who push the button when we want the car to unlock but it was already predetermined to work on only your car." So inasmuch as you control the key to your car, someone already programmed it that when you're ready you can use it to do whatever you want on your own car. You can think of this in line with the quote "man is free everywhere in chains."

We have the free will to go to where we've been predetermined (given the capacity) to go or we can freely choose to stay where we are.

Free will is never having to do the bidding of others, and I am 100% determined to act freely whenever it is appropriate to what and who I am.

At the end of the day, being able to act freely as far as we are concerned is all that matters

[Splittingcheese]

I also believe that to deserve our free will we must embrace pain. Here's a video on the use of suffering/heat. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7kRC9ozxNLk Lemme know what you guys think

[Sculptor]

I just watched a video about an old man talking about automatic car keys that only work on your car and it got me thinking, "Yes, we are the ones who push the button when we want the car to unlock but it was already predetermined to work on only your car." So inasmuch as you control the key to your car, someone already programmed it that when you're ready you can use it to do whatever you want on your own car. You can think of this in line with the quote "man is free everywhere in chains."

We have the free will to go to where we've been predetermined (given the capacity) to go or we can freely choose to stay where we are.

Free will is never having to do the bidding of others, and I am 100% determined to act freely whenever it is appropriate to what and who I am.

At the end of the day, being able to act freely as far as we are concerned is all that matters

No, no, sometmes doing your duty has importatnce too.
I think you missed my point.

[Sculptor]

I also believe that to deserve our free will we must embrace pain. Here's a video on the use of suffering/heat. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7kRC9ozxNLk Lemme know what you guys think

This has no bearing on the discussion

[Splittingcheese]

Free will is never having to do the bidding of others, and I am 100% determined to act freely whenever it is appropriate to what and who I am.

At the end of the day, being able to act freely as far as we are concerned is all that matters

No, no, sometmes doing your duty has importatnce too.
I think you missed my point.

No i get you. I was just saying as long as you're free of the feeling or suspicion that what you want to do is not predetermined, that's all that matters

[Splittingcheese]

I also believe that to deserve our free will we must embrace pain. Here's a video on the use of suffering/heat. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7kRC9ozxNLk Lemme know what you guys think

This has no bearing on the discussion

Sorry about that. Was just trying to make another point about earning our freedom

[Sculptor]

At the end of the day, being able to act freely as far as we are concerned is all that matters

No, no, sometmes doing your duty has importatnce too.
I think you missed my point.

No i get you. I was just saying as long as you're free of the feeling or suspicion that what you want to do is not predetermined, that's all that matters

It is all determined.
What would it mean to use the word "predetermined"?

[Splittingcheese]

No, no, sometmes doing your duty has importatnce too.
I think you missed my point.

No i get you. I was just saying as long as you're free of the feeling or suspicion that what you want to do is not predetermined, that's all that matters

It is all determined.
What would it mean to use the word "predetermined"?

predetermined as in, it has been determined even before you made the decision to do that thing

[Sculptor]

No i get you. I was just saying as long as you're free of the feeling or suspicion that what you want to do is not predetermined, that's all that matters

It is all determined.
What would it mean to use the word "predetermined"?

predetermined as in, it has been determined even before you made the decision to do that thing

But the future is unknown and so adding "pre-" adds no information. Not unless, that is, you think god knows already.

[Belinda]

No i get you. I was just saying as long as you're free of the feeling or suspicion that what you want to do is not predetermined, that's all that matters

It is all determined.
What would it mean to use the word "predetermined"?

predetermined as in, it has been determined even before you made the decision to do that thing

That' s called predestined (predestination), I note that Splittingcheese used the passive voice. What sort of power is destiny that it predestines?

[Age]

I just watched a video about an old man talking about automatic car keys that only work on your car and it got me thinking, "Yes, we are the ones who push the button when we want the car to unlock but it was already predetermined to work on only your car." So inasmuch as you control the key to your car, someone already programmed it that when you're ready you can use it to do whatever you want on your own car. You can think of this in line with the quote "man is free everywhere in chains."

We have the free will to go to where we've been predetermined (given the capacity) to go or we can freely choose to stay where we are.

One's ability to choose is curtailed by our physical strength e.g.a newborn baby cannot choose to go anywhere, and neither can a man with a broken thigh bone.

What do you mean by they cannot choose to go anywhere?

What do you assume would be stopping them 'to choose' where they can go?

There is absolutely no limit at all whatsoever on 'the ability' 'to choose'.

The only limit here is on 'the choices', one has 'to choose from'.

There is absolutely no limit on 'the ability to choose', and when the term or phrase 'free will' is in relation to 'this ability' or is referring to 'this ability', exactly, then absolutely every human being has 'free will'. Exactly like every human being is affected by 'determinism'.

And, to show how this is irrefutable, then when the explanation is broken down further and in more detail, then this is understood much better, and much simpler and much easier as well.

A human being, where a leg is broken or broken thigh bone on the body, can 'choose' to go absolutely anywhere. And, there is absolutely nothing limiting 'this choice'.

Choice is also restricted by lack of information and by poor critical ability.

But, 'the ability to choose' is not restricted at all. However, and again, 'the choices of what to choose from' are limited, or restricted. And, this is just because of 'pre-determined factors', solely and/or only.

Lack of choice is restricted by lack of charisma; some people are not as popular as others.

But, absolutely no human being has a 'lack of choice'. They, however, all have a 'lack of things to choose from'.

There are occasions when a lucky individual has several good alternatives and the power to select what he likes. This power is not chosen ; determinism is not fair, with determinsm each event is a necessary event.

But, 'determinism', itself, is neither fair nor unfair. 'Determinism' is just a word that denotes or describes some thing that happens, occurs, or takes place, in the Universe.

Also, if a human being is born and brought up/raised in a particular situation/events, then what is perceived as 'fair' to one, is not necessarily so to another.

There is no actual 'fair', in Life, Itself, there are, however, concepts of 'fair' or 'unfair', which you older human beings make up, and decide, for "yourselves".

Freedom is much to be desiired and we can help each other to be more (or less )free by our political decisions.

'Choosing' a "political side" over another causes more friction, unrest, or disharmony than is needed at all.

[Age]

Obviously, you can't just will whatever you want.

But can you will anything free from preexisting conditions?

Would you want to?

Sure. I can see the advantages.

I have some belief that has a hold of me, in a way. If I was able to 'magically' drop it, then I could move on to something better.

Why do you think, or believe, 'magic' would be needed to be able to drop one or any of your, 'current', 'chosen beliefs'?