What Should Humanity Strive For?
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:50 am
In the coming centuries, 2100, 2200, 2300, what ideals ought Humanity strive for?
For the discussion of all things philosophical, especially articles in the magazine Philosophy Now.
https://forum.philosophynow.org/
K: and this is a noble goal, however where I come from, we call this a
Because we depend on the resources of this planet for survival.and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another?
Yes, but one can dream, Kropotkin, one can dream.Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pmK: and this is a noble goal, however where I come from, we call this a
utopia...
K: and in fact, I agree with you... the question becomes this..phyllo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:10 pmBecause we depend on the resources of this planet for survival.and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another?
We are measurably overconsuming the resources.
That consumption comes from a relatively small proportion of the population. As the standard of living of developing nations increases (if it is allowed to increase), consumption will further increase.
Competition for finite resources will inevitably lead to conflict and violence.
This results in our destruction through war and/or famine.
The sooner we adjust our consumption, the less painful it will be.
Our survival is at stake.
This is not a pie in the sky philosophical problem. This is objectively real.
It requires the reevaluation of values that you write about.K: and in fact, I agree with you... the question becomes this..
how do we achieve this reduction... voluntarily or edict?
I live a pretty comfortable life, to benefit some ''lowlifes''
in India or Africa, why should I give up my comfortable life?
a reduction in my consumption only hurts me, it doesn't help me...
so, why would I voluntarily make my life harder?
What 'it' is that humanity wants and desires.
Not necessarily so.Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pmK: and this is a noble goal, however where I come from, we call this a
utopia... and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another? what makes this goal worth
achieving and not another goal?
the question itself is a good one... what ideals should human beings
pursue....
it has become quite clear that the modern set of ideals, of pursuing money,
fame, material possessions, titles and power, are all going to end in failure...
for these trinkets, only allow themselves to become answers... in other words,
in seeking money, that is all one gets in seeking money and the same goes
for fame.. in seeking fame, that will be what one gets, fame and nothing else...
or material possessions.. that is all one will get in pursing material possessions...
material possessions.... nothing else... so, we can eliminate the modern
day trinkets of pursuing fame, titles, money, power and material possessions....
as ideals we should pursue....
so, what the thread is really asking for is a reevaluation of values...
But from birth humanity, and all, have the exact same values. Only you adult human being have misguided and misdirected values and goals.Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm we have a set group of values, currently, and we need to move onto
another set of values that be values by which we can live for, die for....
I would not class these 'things' as 'values', but you are free to if you want to "peter kropotkin".Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm and if they are values that are worth pursuing, they should be at least positive
values worth pursuing... and thus we can eliminate values like hate, bigotry,
prejudice, anger, violence and values that separate us into US vs THEM...
So, all you are more or less saying is that humanity should strive to be united, and not divided, right?Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm values
that unite us, not divide us.. and only positive values can do that....
so, what values can unite us?
Why did you say and use the 'again' word here?Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm Values such as love, hope, peace,
justice, equality... to name just a few of the values that can unite us
and these values, these positive values are not just individual values,
they can be universal values, that we can collectively pursue...
and we can extend this list for years.. we can add autonomy, authenticity,
balance, beauty, compassion, community, fairness, faith, fun, humor,
kindness, learning, optimism, pleasure, poise, respect, trustworthiness,
wisdom... again, this list can be extended for years...
Could what you 'see' here be of your own individual 'making up', and thus be somewhat delusional?Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm we can pursue these values individually or collectively.... and they will
unite us, not divide us... and I can see the antsy ones asking, so, Kropotkin
what is your answer? the current situation where we pursue only private,
individual values, those days are over....
Stop grouping and labeling you 'human beings' into 'things' that you are not. That will certainly begin in the transformation of just One, and not 'us' and 'them' False perceptions.Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm so, what values can unite us, not divide us into ''US'' vs ''THEM...
where we can say, I am an American, you are not.. US vs THEM,
I am a liberal, and you are not.. US vs THEM, I am a male, and
you are not.... US vs THEM... What is a broad enough understanding
of beliefs that can unite us, not divide us?
But this is just another False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect perception.Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm I am human and so, so are you.... and an acknowledgement
you have said and claimed this a few times here already, yet it has been you who is dividing 'us' here.Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm of the primary value of being human... that we are human beings,
because we have the same needs... of food, water, shelter, health care,
education, and psychological needs of love, of being esteemed, of safety/security,
being a part of the group...
those values are human values and we can begin there... we are not
American's or Catholic or male or gay for that matter.. we are human being,
and that is what connects us to each other... and that connection is a crucial
aspect of being human... and therein lies the narrowing of values..
we must have values that connect us, not divide us..
Well this thread's question is asking, 'What 'ideals' ought humanity strive for?'Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm and thus values
like love, peace, hope, are connecting values, not dividing values....
and that is another clue along the way... our values must connect us....
our ideals must be able to connect us..
Well this is obvious, and thus just a tautology right?Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm because we human beings,
not only want to be connected but connection is a fundamental aspect
of being human...the need to belong is a necessary need of being human...
we live in loneliness if we cannot connect to others....
So, as I was saying and pointing out;Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:26 pm thus, a necessary/ideal value is one that connects to each other...
and by the process of elimination, we can arrive at values/ideals that can
give us what we need, both in a biological sense but in a psychological sense...
and the chosen value must be positive... thus I offer up this value/ideal
that we should engage with...
let us give peace/non-violence as the ideal that can lead us into
the future..
Kropotkin
Once again, greed and selfishness rears its ugly head.Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 6:23 pmK: and in fact, I agree with you... the question becomes this..phyllo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:10 pmBecause we depend on the resources of this planet for survival.and phyllo with his sustainable consumption, again, a fairly
noble goal, but why this goal and not another?
We are measurably overconsuming the resources.
That consumption comes from a relatively small proportion of the population. As the standard of living of developing nations increases (if it is allowed to increase), consumption will further increase.
Competition for finite resources will inevitably lead to conflict and violence.
This results in our destruction through war and/or famine.
The sooner we adjust our consumption, the less painful it will be.
Our survival is at stake.
This is not a pie in the sky philosophical problem. This is objectively real.
how do we achieve this reduction... voluntarily or edict?
I live a pretty comfortable life, to benefit some ''lowlifes''
in India or Africa, why should I give up my comfortable life?
a reduction in my consumption only hurts me, it doesn't help me...
so, why would I voluntarily make my life harder?
Kropotkin
Humanity was far, far happier and content when they did not have 'human made things', or 'creature comforts' in other words.phyllo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:20 pmIt requires the reevaluation of values that you write about.K: and in fact, I agree with you... the question becomes this..
how do we achieve this reduction... voluntarily or edict?
I live a pretty comfortable life, to benefit some ''lowlifes''
in India or Africa, why should I give up my comfortable life?
a reduction in my consumption only hurts me, it doesn't help me...
so, why would I voluntarily make my life harder?
People need to be shown that owning and consuming a lot does not lead to happiness. And they have to be shown the high cost of ownership and consumption.
One can have a better life with less. Many people live comfortably in societies with fewer possessions and smaller houses/apartment as compared to the USA. So it's not an impossible task.