British Values

[godelian]

Why come here, claim some thing is true but when asked for clarity and challenged over your claim, you do not?

What is the actual purpose of doing that?

How am I supposed to know that you do not understand the very basic premises of religion? Most people certainly do. You apparently do not. You want proof for the axioms of a system. That is not how axiomatic systems work. The goal of an axiomatic system is to prove from the axioms and not to prove the axioms themselves. What exactly is it that you fail to understand about that? If I have to explain all of that to you, it simply means that you are ignorant and incompetent.

Do your homework and read up on foundationalism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundationalism

Foundationalism concerns philosophical theories of knowledge resting upon non-inferential justified belief, or some secure foundation of certainty such as a conclusion inferred from a basis of sound premises.[1]

Identifying the alternatives as either circular reasoning or infinite regress, and thus exhibiting the regress problem, Aristotle made foundationalism his own clear choice, positing basic beliefs underpinning others.[2]

The religious scripture is the foundation of basic beliefs in a religious system. I do not understand why I need to explain that to you, because only very stupid people do not know that.

[Age]

Why come here, claim some thing is true but when asked for clarity and challenged over your claim, you do not?

What is the actual purpose of doing that?

How am I supposed to know that you do not understand the very basic premises of religion? Most people certainly do. You apparently do not. You want proof for the axioms of a system. That is not how axiomatic systems work. The goal of an axiomatic system is to prove from the axioms and not to prove the axioms themselves. What exactly is it that you fail to understand about that? If I have to explain all of that to you, it simply means that you are ignorant and incompetent.

So, now you believe that you can come to a 'philosophy forum', of all places, present "axioms", which in and of themselves are False, and then all you have to do is to just prove 'from' the False axioms.

you now appear more lost and confused than you previously did

Do your homework and read up on foundationalism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundationalism

Foundationalism concerns philosophical theories of knowledge resting upon non-inferential justified belief, or some secure foundation of certainty such as a conclusion inferred from a basis of sound premises.[1]

Identifying the alternatives as either circular reasoning or infinite regress, and thus exhibiting the regress problem, Aristotle made foundationalism his own clear choice, positing basic beliefs underpinning others.[2]

The religious scripture is the foundation of basic beliefs in a religious system. I do not understand why I need to explain that to you, because only very stupid people do not know that.

It is very clear now that this one believes that believing False, Wrong, Inaccurate, or Incorrect things is perfectly normal and acceptable. That is, of course, as long as the False things one is believing is true are the exact same False things that this one has chosen to believe are true as well.

And, as some already know this one doing so could not be a more stupid thing to do.

[godelian]

Obviously you do. And you, like other "theists" believe other texts represent God's laws, of which they also cannot prove true, just "atheists" believe texts that they also cannot prove true.

There is never proof for the foundational axioms of a system. If that were a requirement, then you can never use any axiomatic system. That is exactly the reason why atheists have no system.

What you are all doing is just believing things to be true but which are just made up stories and written by just human beings.

Yes, we accept in the foundational starting point beliefs, and that is why we have a system, while you don't.

When are all of you adult human beings going to actually 'grow up'/evolve, and stop believing in 'stories', that are not true?

Who exactly needs to grow up? You do not have a system. You have nothing to show for and you say that other people need to grow up? It is the same as a broke, homeless, and unemployed beggar claiming that a millionaire driving past in his Mercedes car needs to grow up. The millionaire has a system while the homeless guy does not.

This is right. I do not believe in just made up stories spoken and written by you human beings

Yes, but where is your system? You have nothing to show for!

Why do you even begin to assume and believe things that are completely Untrue?

Every foundational system rests on axiomatic starting-point beliefs. You cannot have a system because you do not have a starting point. Your approach is worthless. Disbelieving axioms is not a feat. It just means that you cannot build any system on top of it. You have nothing to show for. If you want a system, you will need to come up with a starting point. You don't have that. What do you achieve by doing that? Nothing.

[godelian]

So, now you believe that you can come to a 'philosophy forum', of all places, present "axioms", which in and of themselves are False, and then all you have to do is to just prove 'from' the False axioms.

Mathematics is an axiomatic system. Go to the section "philosophy of mathematics".
Religion is an axiomatic system. Go to the section "philosophy of religion".
You are incredibly ignorant.
How much of an idiot can anybody be?

[Age]

Obviously you do. And you, like other "theists" believe other texts represent God's laws, of which they also cannot prove true, just "atheists" believe texts that they also cannot prove true.

There is never proof for the foundational axioms of a system. If that were a requirement, then you can never use any axiomatic system. That is exactly the reason why atheists have no system.

This False belief of your here allows you to formulate, make up, say, and write absolutely False things, claim it is a so-called 'axiom', and then just move along from 'there'. Which is, exactly, and, literally, how you are and have been fooling and deceiving "yourself' here.

Now, there is no requirement that 'axioms', nor anything else, be proved True, or False. However, if and when they can, then they can. What you claim here are foundational axioms I can prove are irrefutably False. But, if you want to keep believing that they are true, and are the foundation for your 'religion' and other beliefs, then by all means keep on believing so. you doing so is proving True other things as well here.

What you are all doing is just believing things to be true but which are just made up stories and written by just human beings.

Yes, we accept in the foundational starting point beliefs, and that is why we have a system, while you don't.

So, you believe some things are true, even though they are, and can be, proved False, and to make this even more absurd you say and claim those False things are the starting point or foundation for your then other following on beliefs.

Talk about the 'devil' having infiltrated another 'theological religion' in the most deceptive or devilish ways.

When are all of you adult human beings going to actually 'grow up'/evolve, and stop believing in 'stories', that are not true?

Who exactly needs to grow up? You do not have a system. You have nothing to show for and you say that other people need to grow up?

Why do you even begin to assume these absolutely False things, let alone start believing them to be true?

It is the same as a broke, homeless, and unemployed beggar claiming that a millionaire driving past in his Mercedes car needs to grow up. The millionaire has a system while the homeless guy does not.

But, you do not have nor use a system that actually works in line with God, itself.

As has already been proved irrefutably True, you are working against God and not with God. As you keep showing and proving irrefutably True here

This is right. I do not believe in just made up stories spoken and written by you human beings

Yes, but where is your system? You have nothing to show for!

Everytime you keep believing that I have no system, you keep missing it.

Why do you even begin to assume and believe things that are completely Untrue?

Every foundational system rests on axiomatic starting-point beliefs.

And, if the 'axiom', which 'the rest' is resting on, is False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and/or Incorrect, then that whole system, or 'religion, will crumble and fall. Exactly like how "islam" AND "christianity" will.

And you basing your beliefs on a False or Wrong belief explains, exactly, why you cannot back up, support, nor prove any of your claims and beliefs here

You cannot have a system because you do not have a starting point. Your approach is worthless. Disbelieving axioms is not a feat. It just means that you cannot build any system on top of it. You have nothing to show for. If you want a system, you will need to come up with a starting point. You don't have that. What do you achieve by doing that? Nothing.

This here is another prime example of 'confirmation bias', and one built upon another absolutely False, foundational, claim.

The only one that this one is DECEIVING here is "itself".

[godelian]

This False belief of your here allows you to formulate, make up, say, and write absolutely False things, claim it is a so-called 'axiom', and then just move along from 'there'. Which is, exactly, and, literally, how you are and have been fooling and deceiving "yourself' here.

You are attacking Aristotelian foundationalism here. Why do I need to defend Aristotle's views? Seriously, read up on them and come back when you have finally educated yourself on the very, very basics of philosophy.

Now, there is no requirement that 'axioms', nor anything else, be proved True, or False. However, if and when they can, then they can. What you claim here are foundational axioms I can prove are irrefutably False.

That is truly nonsensical. Read up on foundationalism first. Read up on axiomatic systems. Do your homework!

So, you believe some things are true, even though they are, and can be, proved False, and to make this even more absurd you say and claim those False things are the starting point or foundation for your then other following on beliefs.

Proving is always done from something, from some foundational beliefs. Where is your from? You reject the very notion of foundation. You do not propose another foundation, to possibly build another system. Again, you cannot build anything because you reject the very idea of having a starting point. That is the reason why you have nothing to show for.

Why do you even begin to assume these absolutely False things, let alone start believing them to be true?

Where is your alternative foundation? Where is your alternative system? You don't have one! You have nothing to show for!

Everytime you keep believing that I have no system, you keep missing it.

Really? All you are doing, is criticizing other people's systems, but where is yours? You do not have one!

[Age]

Obviously you do. And you, like other "theists" believe other texts represent God's laws, of which they also cannot prove true, just "atheists" believe texts that they also cannot prove true.

There is never proof for the foundational axioms of a system.

Here is another prime example of a completely False 'axiom', which you use as a base for another of your 'belief systems'.

Again, using False beliefs or claims, at any point of 'one's system', from the start/foundation to the end/claims, is just lunacy, foolishness, absurdity, and proof of one just deceiving "its" own 'self'.

If that were a requirement, then you can never use any axiomatic system. That is exactly the reason why atheists have no system.

But, they have systems, just like you have systems. Both these systems are based upon, or at the foundational level, are just your very own beliefs.

Which, if those beliefs, themselves, are not based on actual irrefutable Truth, Itself, leaves 'your systems' bound to crumble and fall.

As I can and will show and prove, irrefutably.

What you are all doing is just believing things to be true but which are just made up stories and written by just human beings.

Yes, we accept in the foundational starting point beliefs, and that is why we have a system, while you don't.

So, you even admit that what you believe is true is based on nothing more than just stories made up and written by other human beings, which none of you have any actual proof for.

The ridiculousness and stupidity here continues.

When are all of you adult human beings going to actually 'grow up'/evolve, and stop believing in 'stories', that are not true?

Who exactly needs to grow up? You do not have a system. You have nothing to show for and you say that other people need to grow up? It is the same as a broke, homeless, and unemployed beggar claiming that a millionaire driving past in his Mercedes car needs to grow up. The millionaire has a system while the homeless guy does not.

you say this like your system works, yet are too scared to put forth any of your system, or when you do all you can say is just to 'study it'.

your system obviously does not work because you had to live in another human being controlled system part of the world. And, in a part which is no better than any other human being controlled system.

And, worse still you claim that 'that system' is God's system. you are more delusional than you realize "godelian".

This is right. I do not believe in just made up stories spoken and written by you human beings

Yes, but where is your system? You have nothing to show for!

Why do you even begin to assume and believe things that are completely Untrue?

Every foundational system rests on axiomatic starting-point beliefs. You cannot have a system because you do not have a starting point. Your approach is worthless. Disbelieving axioms is not a feat. It just means that you cannot build any system on top of it. You have nothing to show for. If you want a system, you will need to come up with a starting point. You don't have that. What do you achieve by doing that? Nothing.

d
Again, this one cannot answer and clarify. And, while it continues to believe that I have nothing, it will keep being completely BLIND and DEAF to the actual and irrefutable Truth here.

[godelian]

Obviously you do. And you, like other "theists" believe other texts represent God's laws, of which they also cannot prove true, just "atheists" believe texts that they also cannot prove true.

There is never proof for the foundational axioms of a system.

Here is another prime example of a completely False 'axiom', which you use as a base for another of your 'belief systems'.

Read up on foundationalism. Read up on Aristotle. You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?

[Age]

So, now you believe that you can come to a 'philosophy forum', of all places, present "axioms", which in and of themselves are False, and then all you have to do is to just prove 'from' the False axioms.

Mathematics is an axiomatic system.

So what?

Go to the section "philosophy of mathematics".

What for?

Religion is an axiomatic system.

So what?

Go to the section "philosophy of religion".

What for? "christianity" is talked about. Do you believe "christianity" should be followed and adhered to?

You are incredibly ignorant.

Coming from the one who, actually, believes in False claims and so-called 'axioms'

How much of an idiot can anybody be?

Coming from the one who claims to believe in 'God's laws' but is way too afraid and scared to actually list any of the things that it believes in, in case I show and prove where it contradicts "itself" or show and prove where it is being hypocritical.

Claims things are true, but with absolutely no proof for at all is also said to be the behavior of the Truly stupid.

All you are doing here is saying, 'your are ignorant', while never actually backing up and supporting what you believe I am ignorant of, exactly.

[godelian]

What for? "christianity" is talked about. Do you believe "christianity" should be followed and adhered to?

I have switched from Christianity to Islam because I can see that Christianity does not work. But then again, I will always have some system in place. Islam works fine for me. Where is your system? You can criticize Christianity all you like but the really important question remains: What is your alternative?

[Age]

This False belief of your here allows you to formulate, make up, say, and write absolutely False things, claim it is a so-called 'axiom', and then just move along from 'there'. Which is, exactly, and, literally, how you are and have been fooling and deceiving "yourself' here.

You are attacking Aristotelian foundationalism here. Why do I need to defend Aristotle's views? Seriously, read up on them and come back when you have finally educated yourself on the very, very basics of philosophy.

Telling others to 'read up' shows and proves that you are completely and utterly incapable of backing up and supporting "yourself" here.

And, the reason you cannot back up and support "yourself" here is because "yourself" rests on faulty and False foundational beliefs.

you, literally, have nothing to stand up on and back "yourself" up on but False beliefs and False claims here.

Which is why 'you' are, literally, crumbling and falling down all around "your" 'self', here.

Now, there is no requirement that 'axioms', nor anything else, be proved True, or False. However, if and when they can, then they can. What you claim here are foundational axioms I can prove are irrefutably False.

That is truly nonsensical.

Once again, this one beliefs some thing is true when it has no actual proof for the belief.

Read up on foundationalism first. Read up on axiomatic systems. Do your homework!

Again, this one cannot prove its claim. All it can do is just tell the other to do 'their homework'. Which is proves you more and more stupid each time you say it.

Look "godelian" if you want to believe that believing in False beliefs/claims, and that using False beliefs/claims as the 'starting point' or 'foundation' for 'your system' and 'your further claims and beliefs' is the right thing to do, then, please, keep doing this.

What this will achieve, for me, will be and is perfect.

So, you believe some things are true, even though they are, and can be, proved False, and to make this even more absurd you say and claim those False things are the starting point or foundation for your then other following on beliefs.

Proving is always done from something, from some foundational beliefs.

If this is what you want to 'now' believe is true, then by all means keep believing this, another, False belief.

Where is your from?

'From' a previous irrefutable proof, or Fact.

Unlike you I do move on nor with False beliefs and False claims. To me, to do so is just Truly illogical and nonsensical.

You reject the very notion of foundation.

you just keep making up stories, and then believing your False made up claims.

I have never ever rejected the notion of 'foundation', itself. Unlike you, I just use an unmovable, unshakable, and unchangeable foundation.

you, however, base 'your whole system' the 'False foundation' that all systems are comprised upon nothing more than just 'unprovable axioms'.

You do not propose another foundation, to possibly build another system.

No one has ever asked me to.

And, once again I will point out that you have and hold another completely False belief here.

Again, you cannot build anything because you reject the very idea of having a starting point.

The more you speak and write here "godelian" the more you show and prove just how Truly illogical and nonsensical 'your system' is here. The more you speak and write here the more False, unshakable, beliefs of yours you show and expose here.

That is the reason why you have nothing to show for.

Again, if this is what you believe is true, then this must be true, right?

Why do you even begin to assume these absolutely False things, let alone start believing them to be true?

Where is your alternative foundation? Where is your alternative system? You don't have one! You have nothing to show for!

Again, 'confirmation bias' in its most extreme here.

Also again, why do you even begin to assume and believe absolutely False things?

Everytime you keep believing that I have no system, you keep missing it.

Really?

YES.

All you are doing, is criticizing other people's systems, but where is yours? You do not have one!

Again, if this is what you want to believe is true, then keep believing that it is absolutely true.

Also, if other people's systems, like yours, are based upon and rest upon False beliefs and claims, then I will keep 'criticizing' them by pointing them out and exposing them.

[Age]

There is never proof for the foundational axioms of a system.

Here is another prime example of a completely False 'axiom', which you use as a base for another of your 'belief systems'.

Read up on foundationalism. Read up on Aristotle. You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?

If this is what you believe is true, then okay.

[Age]

What for? "christianity" is talked about. Do you believe "christianity" should be followed and adhered to?

I have switched from Christianity to Islam

So, you switched from one system of misinterpreted False beliefs and claims to another system of misinterpreted False beliefs and claims.

because I can see that Christianity does not work.

So, because you can 'see' one system does not work it appears your only option, to you, was to just switch or change to another system, right?

But then again, I will always have some system in place.

So, my last clarifying question was right, which means you will always go to 'some system' even if the 'other system' has no 'actual True and Right foundation' at all.

Just as long as 'the system' is based upon and rests upon some thing, even if that thing is absolutely completely and utterly False, you will still have 'that system' instead of 'no system'.

And, you 'justify', to "yourself" only anyway, that your 'new system' has a foundation, at least.

Islam works fine for me.

Great. If "islam" works 'for you', and it is 'only you' that you are concerned about here, then keep doing what you are here.

As I alluded to earlier already, if you keep doing what you are doing here, then the more you are helping me, tremendously, here.

Where is your system? You can criticize Christianity all you like but the really important question remains: What is your alternative?

What do you mean by, 'the really important question remains'.

Either you believe that I have a so-called 'alternative system' or not.

Do you believe that I have an 'alternative system' to 'your system'?

[godelian]

Once again, this one beliefs some thing is true when it has no actual proof for the belief.

You simply do not understand what the term "proof" means. Proof demonstrates that a conclusion necessarily follows from its (system-wide) premises.

Now you argue that such proof does not prove the premises themselves. Of course, it doesn't.

Read up on proof theory:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_theory

You do not seem to understand the beginning of the beginning of what you are talking about. You fail at the most basic level of logic.

[godelian]

Do you believe that I have an 'alternative system' to 'your system'?

No, you have no system because you have no starting point for one. That is why you have nothing to show for.