The Mind.

[Atla]

How can he has missed that people who have believed in all sorts of things have later, in the face of counterevidence, changed their minds, let go of that belief.

Good question. I've never met anyone who was unaware of something this basic.

[Iwannaplato]

How can he has missed that people who have believed in all sorts of things have later, in the face of counterevidence, changed their minds, let go of that belief.

Good question. I've never met anyone who was unaware of something this basic.

And if he wants to say, well if they stopped believing X, then it wasn't really a belief, that makes no sense in the context of his behavior here. He treats the assertions of others as beliefs that cannot be changed. (his own assertions are not beliefs)

If he wants to argue a kind of chronological ontology - it is not a belief when it is changed.....

in other words, something along the lines of 'as long as they hold onto the belief, they believe it' this doesn't explain his reactions to people and it's such a useless way to interact with people based on something so obvious but not uttered.

Let me take another run at this bizarre way of communicating: If you have a belief you can't change it, because you have it. When you don't have it, you don't have it.

But again this does not explain his behavior and harsh judgments of having beliefs. Great, they go from something to nothing. They're not really a big threat, certainly not as a rule.

And does he really not notice how incredibly evasive he is?

IOW it seems to me he has blind spots that are stunning large.

[Atla]

How can he has missed that people who have believed in all sorts of things have later, in the face of counterevidence, changed their minds, let go of that belief.

Good question. I've never met anyone who was unaware of something this basic.

And if he wants to say, well if they stopped believing X, then it wasn't really a belief, that makes no sense in the context of his behavior here. He treats the assertions of others as beliefs that cannot be changed. (his own assertions are not beliefs)

If he wants to argue a kind of chronological ontology - it is not a belief when it is changed.....

in other words, something along the lines of 'as long as they hold onto the belief, they believe it' this doesn't explain his reactions to people and it's such a useless way to interact with people based on something so obvious but not uttered.

Let me take another run at this bizarre way of communicating: If you have a belief you can't change it, because you have it. When you don't have it, you don't have it.

But again this does not explain his behavior and harsh judgments of having beliefs. Great, they go from something to nothing. They're not really a big threat, certainly not as a rule.

And does he really not notice how incredibly evasive he is?

IOW it seems to me he has blind spots that are stunning large.

Again makes me think that Age literally has no introspection. Introspection is a core part of a person.

[Iwannaplato]

Again makes me think that Age literally has no introspection. Introspection is a core part of a person.

And no overview.
I have sympathy for Wizard thinking he's some kind of AI, though I doubt it.

[Atla]

Again makes me think that Age literally has no introspection. Introspection is a core part of a person.

And no overview.
I have sympathy for Wizard thinking he's some kind of AI, though I doubt it.

AIs don't exist only chatbots. And they seem to be well-programmed to integrate our objections about their statements.

[Iwannaplato]

Again makes me think that Age literally has no introspection. Introspection is a core part of a person.

And no overview.
I have sympathy for Wizard thinking he's some kind of AI, though I doubt it.

AIs don't exist only chatbots. And they seem to be well-programmed to integrate our objections about their statements.

Yes, this is true. I'm partial to bing ai, which actually helps find references and answers questions, with links, that are hard to formulate well in google searches.

I've found that if I assert something or ask it a question, it may dismiss my position as faulty and make an argument. If I respond to one of it's points and challenge it or clarify what I think it misunderstood about my position, it manages integrate this and responds quite well. Sometimes continuing to disagree, sometimes 'deciding' to agree, with a spectrum of nuances in between. (it's a bit annoying how balanced it always tries to be) Compared to VA and Age for example it rapidly 'understands' objections and responds on point to them.

It's a sad state of affairs when machines read and respond better than many humans.

[Harbal]

I have sympathy for Wizard thinking he's some kind of AI, though I doubt it.

I find it remarkable that anyone would have sympathy with a malevolent little creature such as Wizard. It isn't even as if he thinks Age could be an AI, and I very much doubt that anyone here believes he does think that. He obviously came up with that pathetic parody in order to insult, belittle, and make fun of Age. Not even Wizard is stupid enough to try to offend an AI.

[Iwannaplato]

I have sympathy for Wizard thinking he's some kind of AI, though I doubt it.

I find it remarkable that anyone would have sympathy with a malevolent little creature such as Wizard. It isn't even as if he thinks Age could be an AI, and I very much doubt that anyone here believes he does think that. He obviously came up with that pathetic parody in order to insult, belittle, and make fun of Age. Not even Wizard is stupid enough to try to offend an AI.

You may be right, but he's been pretty consistent in the way he talks about AI in threads that have nothing to do with Age. That he expects them to come into forums. That they may not be a danger yet, but could be later. That he looks forward to being challenged by them when they are extremely smart (that was from a long time ago).

As far as insult, belittle and make fun of Age. Age has managed to judge a wide array of individuals in addition to judgment and insulting all humans at the time this is being written. And it's not that he gets going on his judgments of people only in response to their judgments or snarkiness, his condescension and more can be the first glove down.

Wizard has awful views and I've been hardly friendly to him in those contexts.

Here however, yes, I have sympathy for Wizard thinking X. Perhaps that's an Americanism, but it means that I can understand his having that reaction, while considering it unlikely.

And there will be AIs in these forums and given the range of personalities in this forum, it is going to be very hard to tell which participants they are. Perhaps they are already in forums. Perhaps they are coming in a few years.

And if you converse with some of the online AIs, while they don't quite pass the Turing Test, they are much better at conversation than a number of people here. They can actually interact with the ideas of others and respond directly to points made.

And those are the free to access AIs.

I think it's unlikely that Age is an Age in part because he's not as nuanced. Who'd want to test such an AI? I suppose it could be some smaller player doing it.

Anyway, you've been telling Age he's deluded himself, however politely.

[Harbal]

Anyway, you've been telling Age he's deluded himself, however politely.

Well, as you suggest, He isn't backward in telling the rest of us we are deluded, so I don't think I'm overstepping any boundaries. Age just doesn't see things like most people, and he seems incapable of realising that what makes perfect sense to him will never make sense to the rest of us. And I don't think he intends to be offensive when he tells us human beings about our shortcomings; he is merely stating facts, as far as he sees it. I know he can be very frustrating, but I believe him to be genuine and honest. He's just wired up differently.

[Sculptor]

Okay, if you say so.

How do you propose that you, supposedly, 'already knew' 'the intro'?




Where have you now, supposedly, asked me to prove my mind claim?



I have no idea what these two sentences, and one with a question mark, are meant to even be in reference to.

What three letters are you talking about?

And, do you 'now' believe that God is real?

If yes, then okay.

But, if no, then why are you trying to claim that God, Itself, is autistic?

By, the way, could you "atla" be 'autistic' in any way at all?

Let's try again:

I ask you to prove your mind claim.

Is this really the way you ask for something?

Also, tell me how you can prove something to another, while the other believes the opposite is true?

Duh.
It works for most people.
You just show them the error of their ways.
I'd guess, from seeing the reaction of your posts from others on the Forum that no one really thinks you are capable of changing your mind, no matter how many times they show you how wrong you are all the time, so we can conlcude with no surprise that you would hold such an opinion as your puzzlement over this issue.

But rest assured - if you have good reason to establish your opinion then most on the Forum are capable of understanding where you are not.

[Age]

Let's try again:

I ask you to prove your mind claim.

Is this really the way you ask for something?

Also, tell me how you can prove something to another, while the other believes the opposite is true?

You are assuming that everyone else is insane.

Why would you even begin to presume, and then believe, such a Truly False, Wrong, and Incorrect thing as this here?

But to rational people, beliefs are rendered irrelevant when we have proof to the contrary.

Yes, proof will always render a contrary belief irrelevant. For example, the proof and the Fact that the earth is revolving around the sun always renders the contrary belief irrelevant. However, this never stops people choosing to believe False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect things like, for example, that the sun revolves around the earth. And, again, while people who are believing the False and Wrong this is true and right, then those ones are not open enough to see and comprehend the actual and irrefutable Truth of things here.

So, once again;

1. How does one prove something to another, while the other is believing that the opposite is true? For example, how does one prove that God does not exist to those while they are believing that God exists.

2. Why even have a belief in something being true when the actual irrefutable Truth has not yet even come-to-light. For example, if what you are believing is true can become irrelevant anyway, then why even begin to believe that it is true?

I ask you to prove your mind claim please.

I ask you to show how you can prove something to someone while they believe the opposite. When, and if, you are able to do this, then you will be providing a great deal of help here.

Oh, and by the way, if you did not notice the proof in what I have said and written here so far, then you are proving, for me, how when the human brain is working alongside with the belief-system can block out and stop the actual Truth from been seen, and heard.

[Age]

You are assuming that everyone else is insane. But to rational people, beliefs are rendered irrelevant when we have proof to the contrary.

One wonders if he has never had the experience of believing X is true.

Keep wondering. If you never seek out clarification and clarity, then obviously you never can, and also never will.

Assuming or believing that what "atla" said and wrote here was even remotely true, shows and proves just how easily manipulated you human beings can be while holding onto presumptions and/or beliefs. 'Confirmation bias' was a very common phenomena, back in the 'olden days' when this was being written.

Then he meets someone who shows him things that show X is not true. Or he encounters them himself.

If not, one can have sympathy for his non-rational conclusions about everyone else.

None of this even makes sense, let alone even closely follows logically:

One wonders if another, a male) has never had the experience of believing X is true.
Then the other or "he" meets someone who shows "him" that X is not true. (Or, "he" encounters that X is not true "himself".)
If not, one can have sympathy for his non-rational conclusions about everyone else.

It is like all "atla" had to do was just say and write the words; You are assuming that everyone else is insane. and those with pre-existing beliefs and/or presumptions 'about me' just suddenly or instantly 'believe' what "atla", literally, just 'made up' and claimed here.

These adult human beings, again, were so easily, so simply, and so quickly able to be misled and manipulated.

Or, really no. How can he has missed that people who have believed in all sorts of things have later, in the face of counterevidence, changed their minds, let go of that belief.

Once more, this, also, could not be more completely and utterly False, Wrong, Inaccurate, Incorrect, and BACKWARDS.

I have never even thought such a thing, but because these ones here started out with completely False presumptions and beliefs 'about me' quite a long time ago now, then have completely and utterly deceived, fooled, and tricked "themselves" into believing things are true, which are blatantly not true at all.

Just imagine how humans and even history must look to someone who gives 'believe' such power in all situations in all people.

I wonder which views he has changed since he started posting here.

He has claimed his assertions are views, not beliefs.

If this really believes that the words 'views' and 'beliefs' are and meant the 'exact same thing', then this is really more confused then it has been showing and presenting here, hitherto.

Presumably views can be changed, though I see little evidence of it.

Once again, "iwannaplato" 'presume' things are true, without ever seeking out and obtaining and gaining actual clarification, and thus clarity, first.

you are a prime example of one who would just about always, if not always, much prefer to just rely on your own pre-exiting beliefs and presumptions then on ever seeking out and obtaining and gaining the actual proof or actual clarity first. Which means you are providing all of the living irrefutable proof of what I have to say in regards to how the way the Mind and the brain work, and why you adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, took so, so very long to get out of where and what you are stuck 'in' 'now'.

[Age]

How can he has missed that people who have believed in all sorts of things have later, in the face of counterevidence, changed their minds, let go of that belief.

Good question. I've never met anyone who was unaware of something this basic.

And you two, specifically, are proving here just how Truly unaware both of you two really are.

[Age]

How can he has missed that people who have believed in all sorts of things have later, in the face of counterevidence, changed their minds, let go of that belief.

Good question. I've never met anyone who was unaware of something this basic.

And if he wants to say, well if they stopped believing X, then it wasn't really a belief, that makes no sense in the context of his behavior here.

Well considering that I would never want to say such a Truly absurd and ridiculous thing, the rest of what you also imagined up "yourself" is just plain old moot.

He treats the assertions of others as beliefs that cannot be changed. (his own assertions are not beliefs)

Once again, this 'made up' story could not be more Wrong and False even if this one was trying to be.

These people here, but especially this one is showing how absolutely deranged it is. While at the same time showing not one slightest bit of interest in ever discovering and/or finding out for sure that if there is any truth at all in what it is, literally, 'just making up in its own imagination only'. This one has no interest at all in coming to the actual Truth of things. It just wants others to see and hear its own made up fictional stories, wants you others to believe that those fictional stories are true, while singling 'me' out as being the one who is more than confused here.

If only this one, and others, knew what is actually happening and occurring here.

If he wants to argue a kind of chronological ontology - it is not a belief when it is changed.....

Again, how Truly weak and immature is it for one to say and write things like;

If the other wants to argue ...., then .... .

Once again, the other here has never wanted to argue what this one just dreamed up and imagined here. So, again, all of this is moot.

This one has written pages and pages of text that are just moot. Mostly because it makes up and/or presumes things, then believes those made up imaginings are true, and so, and worst of all for it, makes those False and Wrong presumptions and beliefs of its made publicly known.

in other words, something along the lines of 'as long as they hold onto the belief, they believe it' this doesn't explain his reactions to people and it's such a useless way to interact with people based on something so obvious but not uttered.

Again, another made up False and Wrong imagined conclusion, believed to be true, but was made from completely False and Wrong previously made up assumptions, and beliefs.

Also, this one here still seems to be under some sort of False and Wrong delusion that it, or the posters here, are ones of my intended audience.

Once again, for you Iwannaplato once more, I am not necessarily here to interact with you so you get to understand and comprehend things here.

Once again, 'I' am USING 'you' to show and to present to my intended audience why human beings are so slow to learn, comprehend, and understand, and of what not to do, in the future, to prevent this 'slowness', and also to prevent anymore 'abuse' of others, especially children, which, in turn, will bring things, literally, back on TRACK to creating 'the world' and 'a way of life' that each and every one Truly wants to live in, and with.

Let 'us' see if you can at least comprehend and understand this Fact here "iwannaplato"?

Let me take another run at this bizarre way of communicating: If you have a belief you can't change it, because you have it. When you don't have it, you don't have it.

'Running' on or after other False and Wrong conclusions, which are believed to be true, but which were also made from Wrong and False made up presumptions, is not taking you any closer to the actual Truth "iwannaplato". And, as can be clearly seen here, once more, is only taking you further and further away. So, you can keep 'running' in 'this direction' if you like. But, the only real thing you are doing here, and getting to here, is just showing and proving 'me' more and more Right, Accurate, and Correct.

But again this does not explain his behavior and harsh judgments of having beliefs. Great, they go from something to nothing. They're not really a big threat, certainly not as a rule.

And does he really not notice how incredibly evasive he is?

I am only 'evasive' to the False Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect claims and accusations made 'about me' or in regards to 'me'. But, then again, who would not?

I have also above, once again and obviously, explained why I would never agree with and accept your obvious False and Wrong summations 'of me', above here, nor anywhere else.

IOW it seems to me he has blind spots that are stunning large.

And, once again, here is another one of "iwannaplato's" Truly evasive claims 'about' another, and usually 'me'.

So, once again, although no actual answer will ever be provided, 'What do I, supposedly, have 'blind spots' in regards to, exactly, which, to you, are so-called 'stunning large'?

[Age]

I have sympathy for Wizard thinking he's some kind of AI, though I doubt it.

I find it remarkable that anyone would have sympathy with a malevolent little creature such as Wizard. It isn't even as if he thinks Age could be an AI, and I very much doubt that anyone here believes he does think that. He obviously came up with that pathetic parody in order to insult, belittle, and make fun of Age. Not even Wizard is stupid enough to try to offend an AI.

You may be right, but he's been pretty consistent in the way he talks about AI in threads that have nothing to do with Age. That he expects them to come into forums. That they may not be a danger yet, but could be later. That he looks forward to being challenged by them when they are extremely smart (that was from a long time ago).

As far as insult, belittle and make fun of Age. Age has managed to judge a wide array of individuals in addition to judgment and insulting all humans at the time this is being written. And it's not that he gets going on his judgments of people only in response to their judgments or snarkiness, his condescension and more can be the first glove down.

Wizard has awful views and I've been hardly friendly to him in those contexts.

Here however, yes, I have sympathy for Wizard thinking X. Perhaps that's an Americanism, but it means that I can understand his having that reaction, while considering it unlikely.

And there will be AIs in these forums and given the range of personalities in this forum, it is going to be very hard to tell which participants they are. Perhaps they are already in forums. Perhaps they are coming in a few years.

And if you converse with some of the online AIs, while they don't quite pass the Turing Test, they are much better at conversation than a number of people here. They can actually interact with the ideas of others and respond directly to points made.

This is very True and can be seen very clearly in this thread alone.

This thread, The Mind, was created to provide a 'different' view on some thing, and only one, and one only, interacted with the idea/s of another, and respond directly to points made. And that was "harbal", as for the rest of you in this thread, absolutely none of you have made a response, let alone a direct response, to one thing I have said here regarding the Mind.

So, talk about one providing another prime example of what it is criticizing others of, and which is also proving its own claims irrefutably True at the exact same time.

This one spends ever post of its, in regards to 'my words', talking 'about me', and never ever on the actual words that I say and write here.

And, most of what this one says and writes 'about me' comes from some 'made up fictional story', from its own imaginations only.

So, once again, please carry on how each of you posters have been here.

And those are the free to access AIs.

I think it's unlikely that Age is an Age in part because he's not as nuanced. Who'd want to test such an AI? I suppose it could be some smaller player doing it.

Anyway, you've been telling Age he's deluded himself, however politely.

The irony of saying and writing these sorts of things within a thread with the title of this one.

One wonders if this one will ever want to respond directly, or even at all, to the points made in regards to this thread's title.