But isn’t it contradictory to say that and also to say there’s no beginning, which means it always existed without a beginning???bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 5:25 pmYes, but it also says that time didn't exist and then exists.
Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
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Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
It is contrary since it means that we are dealing with an infinite regress.commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:40 pmBut isn’t it contradictory to say that and also to say there’s no beginning, which means it always existed without a beginning???
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Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
Got it.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 7:01 pmIt is contrary since it means that we are dealing with an infinite regress.commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:40 pmBut isn’t it contradictory to say that and also to say there’s no beginning, which means it always existed without a beginning???
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
I am so happy that you got it!commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:14 pmGot it.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 7:01 pmIt is contrary since it means that we are dealing with an infinite regress.commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:40 pm
But isn’t it contradictory to say that and also to say there’s no beginning, which means it always existed without a beginning???
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
I'm not mixing anything with anything, you're the one who repeatedly stated that there are "many minds" while at the same time insisting that there is only "one mind."bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:04 amYou are mixing the mind with persons,...seeds wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:13 am You stated the following...
However, seeing how I obviously have no life and nothing better to do at the moment, I have taken the time to compile a random sampling of your previous statements on that issue [bracketed interjections mine]..."...There is only one mind, the mind, which is omnipresent in spacetime..."I could go on and on, bahman, on how you've contradicted your "there's only one mind" assertion, but I think I've made my point.
- "There are many minds [plural] but each has existed and will exist forever."
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"Minds [plural] don't come from anything. They [plural] simply exist."
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"That is the ability of all minds [plural]."
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"Your mind, mine, other minds [plural] are writing different stories, the separate live's story, and together they [plural] write the history."
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"What we have is a set of interacting minds [plural] rather than a set of interacting particles."
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"There are many minds [plural] involved in the motion of the cosmos."
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"There was no moment in which minds [plural] didn't exist. Minds [plural] have existed since the beginning of time."
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"Minds [plural] existed since the time of Big Bang."
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"Because minds [plural] are real. There is no way to logically avoid them [plural]."
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"Or we can agree that there are many minds [plural] and start from there. We also need to agree to definition of mind, mind being essence of any being with the ability to experience, decide and cause."
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"I argue that our experiences are personal. Separate personal experience requires separate mind. Therefore there are minds [plural]."
You should warn people of their need to wear a neck brace when reading your posts.
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And now you've done exactly what I suspected you would do when I posted the following,...
...because you are now suggesting that you should have said "many persons" instead of "many minds" as was pointed out in that long list of past statements made by you.Now, if this turns out to be yet another situation where you end up saying...
"...Well, I should have said this, and not that..."
...then, in the immortal words of Johnny Carson,...
"...May a thousand camels throw a party in your underwear..."
We can only respond to the words you post, bahman, and not to some alternative meaning that you may have had in mind.
It is quite obvious that you and I have a completely different interpretation of what the word "mind" means.
My interpretation is that the living, self-aware "agent" (the "I Am-ness") that sits at the throne of consciousness within the mind, is what experiences things, while the mind itself is simply the closed "spatial arena" where the experiencing (and the manipulation of mental holography by the "agent") takes place.
On the other hand, your interpretation is far too ambiguous to even begin to make any sense of.
And that's where you seem to have taken a wrong turn in your reasoning.
What do you mean "our minds"? [again, plural]
I thought you said there is only "one mind."
Fortunately, I'm wearing my neck brace.
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Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
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(Continued from prior post)
In other words (and as strange as this may sound), from the perspective of the higher dimension of reality ("true reality") that our souls will be born into after death, the soul has the same relative relationship to this...
...as this...
...has to this...
...hence, the reason why I created this illustration...
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Right. The soul (which is just another name for the "I Am-ness") is what survives the death of the body, with the body simply being the metaphorical equivalent of a momentary "placental-like" encasement of the soul.
In other words (and as strange as this may sound), from the perspective of the higher dimension of reality ("true reality") that our souls will be born into after death, the soul has the same relative relationship to this...
...as this...
...has to this...
...hence, the reason why I created this illustration...
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Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
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(Continued from prior post)
In which case, do you actually think that your statement about God being "real," along with the world being "caused by God" is a new revelation for me?
Look, bahman, it seems as if we both believe that our lives will continue on forever in a higher context of reality,...
...of which I suggested that the creation and maintenance of our own personal and autonomous universe created from the living fabric of our own mind...
(just as I [and Berkeley] proclaim God has done with her mind)
...is the only thing that would make sense for an entity in possession of eternal life.
However, even though I am certain that you don't fully understand what the above proposal entails, if you can think of something that would be less boring and more purposeful than that, then let's hear it.
And lastly, we simply don't know what our actual psychology will be like in our fully-awakened, eternal state of consciousness. Therefore, it is foolish to make predictions from our present level of being about whether or not one can get bored in that higher level of being.
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You said that you read the OP in my thread - My "Burning Bush-like" encounter with God. - viewtopic.php?t=41452
In which case, do you actually think that your statement about God being "real," along with the world being "caused by God" is a new revelation for me?
Well, you suggested that simply "knowing" the meaning of life will be enough to keep us happy and satisfied for eternity. However, I'm bored already at just the thought of such a stagnant proposition.
Look, bahman, it seems as if we both believe that our lives will continue on forever in a higher context of reality,...
...of which I suggested that the creation and maintenance of our own personal and autonomous universe created from the living fabric of our own mind...
(just as I [and Berkeley] proclaim God has done with her mind)
...is the only thing that would make sense for an entity in possession of eternal life.
However, even though I am certain that you don't fully understand what the above proposal entails, if you can think of something that would be less boring and more purposeful than that, then let's hear it.
And lastly, we simply don't know what our actual psychology will be like in our fully-awakened, eternal state of consciousness. Therefore, it is foolish to make predictions from our present level of being about whether or not one can get bored in that higher level of being.
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Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
On the other hand, logic only exists because we exist. And what do the rules of human language...rules that we mere mortals have invented/discovered...have to do with grasping the existence of existence itself? Assuming we are the only intelligent life form in the universe and that "somehow" God or No God we did acquire autonomy, how to even begin to grasp questions like this when for billions of years there were no minds around to ask them?
The existence of existence itself seems to be no less "spooky" than it ever was. In fact, the more astrophysicists discover about the staggering strangeness of things "out there" the "spookier" it becomes.
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
What?bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:17 amSorry, I had to say two persons instead of two minds.
This appears to be just another one of your attempts to somehow get out of, or detract away from, another one of your blatantly obvious 'self-refuting contradictions', which you very clearly continuously make and create here.
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
And one reason is because you keep contracting your previous claims in 'your explanations'.
Stop contradicting your previous words, then you can be much better understood.
I think you will find absolutely every one here understands that the words, 'begin to exist', means that 'it'[whatever] did not, previously exist, and then exists.
I do not think absolutely anyone here has any trouble nor issue understanding what you say here.
It is the other things that you say, and try to claim, which all of 'us' here are having trouble understanding.
Like, for example and this is only one of many, many other examples. you say, and try to claim:
P1. Time cannot begin to exist, by this I mean that it does not exist and then exists, since this is a change and any change requires time.
P2. This leads to an infinite regress that is logically impossible.
P3. We can exclude that time has existed eternally in the past for the same reason, infinite regress.
C. So time has to have a beginning.
Besides this being an absolutely 'unsound and invalid argument', this is just absurdity at the highest level.
you start and begin with: Time cannot begin to exist.
Then lots of completely irrational, nonsensical, and off-tangent remarks claims.
Then conclude and end with: So, Time has to have a beginning.
Now, if you cannot see and understand why all of 'us' here are not understanding what you are trying to say 'here', then I really do not know what else to do to help you understand.
And, this is just one 'thing' that you are trying to say here, out of many 'things', which have pointed out to you, that you are trying to say, which 'we' just do not understand.
Maybe, if you 'go back', remove the 'currently' held onto beliefs and presumptions, which you obviously have and are holding to here, just 'look at' what is actually irrefutably True and Right, first, and then 'come back' and 'try to formulate' some arguments, then you might get understood, better.
Until then, 'the way' you are doing things here is only leading you absolutely astray. Now, and to be totally Honest with you, some of the things you say and believe here are absolutely irrefutably True and Right. But, 'the way' you go about trying to express them and argue for them is absolutely illogical, irrational, ridiculous, and absurd.
Have you ever considered why so many people here do not understand you at all?
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
So, why then is it you alone here "bahman" stating and claiming that: Time cannot begin to exist ?bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 5:25 pmYes, but it also says that time didn't exist and then exists.
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
Maybe if you removed your own personal definition for the 'infinite regress' phrase or term, then you would not get and become so contradictory here.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 7:01 pmIt is contrary since it means that we are dealing with an infinite regress.commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:40 pmBut isn’t it contradictory to say that and also to say there’s no beginning, which means it always existed without a beginning???
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
I think it could be discovered that there is not another human being who has the same interpretation what the 'mind' word means with either or you two here.seeds wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:49 pmI'm not mixing anything with anything, you're the one who repeatedly stated that there are "many minds" while at the same time insisting that there is only "one mind."bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:04 amYou are mixing the mind with persons,...seeds wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:13 am You stated the following...
However, seeing how I obviously have no life and nothing better to do at the moment, I have taken the time to compile a random sampling of your previous statements on that issue [bracketed interjections mine]...
I could go on and on, bahman, on how you've contradicted your "there's only one mind" assertion, but I think I've made my point.
You should warn people of their need to wear a neck brace when reading your posts.
(Continued in next post)
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And now you've done exactly what I suspected you would do when I posted the following,......because you are now suggesting that you should have said "many persons" instead of "many minds" as was pointed out in that long list of past statements made by you.Now, if this turns out to be yet another situation where you end up saying...
"...Well, I should have said this, and not that..."
...then, in the immortal words of Johnny Carson,...
"...May a thousand camels throw a party in your underwear..."
We can only respond to the words you post, bahman, and not to some alternative meaning that you may have had in mind.
It is quite obvious that you and I have a completely different interpretation of what the word "mind" means.
And, do you really believe that your own personal interpretation just 'shown' and 'revealed' here is not far too ambiguous?seeds wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:49 pm My interpretation is that the living, self-aware "agent" (the "I Am-ness") that sits at the throne of consciousness within the mind, is what experiences things, while the mind itself is simply the closed "spatial arena" where the experiencing (and the manipulation of mental holography by the "agent") takes place.
On the other hand, your interpretation is far too ambiguous to even begin to make any sense of.
And/or, not far too ambiguous for most human beings to even begin to make any sense of?
Re: Nothing to somthing is logically impossible
Actually, the other name/word/label for, your so-called, 'I Am-ness' is Spirit.
The 'soul' word is just another name/word/label for 'you', individual people.
As again, can and will be proved irrefutably True, Right, Accurate, and Correct.
Although 'the soul' does not 'die' and thus survives in 'one form', 'the body' also does not 'die' either.
But firstly other things need to be learned, and understood, before this can be explained in a way that could be understood, fully, by you, people.
So, in one sentence of yours here "seeds", 'the soul' survives, but then in another sentence, 'the soul' actually 'will be born', again, 'after actual death'.
Are you able to, and willing to, explain this apparent 'contradiction' here?