How is it a "False and Wrong" belief that predators will harm/hurt/maim/kill you?Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amIf this is what you want to believe is true, then by all means to. Obviously this False and Wrong belief was provided to you, through the genetic make up of 'that body', and so you have no ability other than to keep believing this provable False and Wrong belief, which you are obviously maintaining and holding onto here.
Then prove it.
Belief is an automatic interpretation of information about how 'Real' and 'True' it is, along with probable implications of that information. For example, if you are told that an Asteroid will crash into Earth tomorrow, you'll probably Disbelieve the information. It does not seem real. It is probably false. If it were true, then the consequences would be disaster and calamity. These are all presumed within the statement-itself: an Asteroid will crash into Earth tomorrow. Next, consider a different example, you are told the Sun will rise tomorrow. This is easily believable. Most people automatically believe this, because it happens everyday. There is no significant Disbelief within the preposition.
Reality, Truth, Implication, these are the content of Beliefs. Thus, you have 'beliefs' about the world, although you do not seem aware of it, or are programmed to lie about it, and claim "I have no Beliefs at all, ever". That's why you are not trusted by most on this Philosophy Forum. You do not appear Human.
You can deny believing any and everything; that's your prerogative. But when people Act on given information, as-if that information were true, then by all indication, it is the same as Believing the information. Furthermore, you need to 'Believe' in your own senses, on a basic level, otherwise you're not a living-being, not an animal, not a human. Since you've admitted, repeatedly now, that you're not human, I can then presume you are a robot, a chat-program, and so you do not have Senses, thus helping you to delude yourself and others, denial of all and any beliefs. Because a purely-AI chat-program would not "need beliefs" except in the matter of trusting incoming information (input) from humans. And in that, you are exposed as you are. Because there are levels of belief which, even you, cannot deny.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amNow, listen to this and see if you can comprehend and understand this. When I accept absolutely any information at all I do not need to, nor have to believe that 'that information' is true nor believe absolutely anything else.
Can you comprehend and understand this irrefutable Fact?
Your claim here that 'acceptance' of 'information' is proof of 'a belief, or disbelief', of 'that information', well to me, is beyond absurdity.
To me, if one has a 'belief' of some 'thing', then that one, to me, is 'believing' something to be true or false, or, right or wrong, or, correct or incorrect, et cetera.
But I'm not wrong...Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amTalk about here showing a prime example of one saying just absolutely anything, in the hope that what it is saying will back up and support its absolutely fixed belief.
But people, once upon a time, really did hold onto so strongly what they believed was true that they would, really, say just absolutely anything, trying their hardest to back up and support their tightly held and beloved belief that they had.
Belief is countered by Disbelief, yes. Belief is an estimation of probability of truth. Disbelief is the rejection of a prepositions truth, thus the improbability of it.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amDoes the, so-called and imagined, belief that the information could not be true as well counter the, imagined, belief that the information could be true?
Or, it does not work this way?
you just want to insist that there is some, imagined, belief somewhere, because you believe that you cannot live without belief/s correct?
I insist, because all living organisms, with intellect/evolution, have intrinsic 'beliefs' about existence, such that, information we receive through our senses (Perception) is real and true. This can be doubted, but not entirely. People act as-if the information received through the senses, perception, is real to some small degree.
Experience.
You navigate this environment (philosophy forum) under the presumption that some statements are true.
This can be, and is, interpreted as a type of Belief.
Presumptions do not stay presumed though, just as information eventually becomes interpreted by minds, or in your case, processed through code. When Cognition happens, beliefs are formed instantly. Nobody stays 'Neutral' as to information and data (input), forever. Because information needs to be Processed/Encoded. This is Interpretation. "Beliefs" cannot be coded out of interpretation entirely, which is your primary claim (that it can). Why not? Because your Programmer/Creator has his own Beliefs, which cannot be completely annihilated or relegated. Furthermore, it's obvious in your claims about being open/close-minded. A preference for open-mindedness is only half the matter of experience and processing information. Thus, close-mindedness is required (to Act on information).Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amWere you not yet aware that 'presuming' some thing is different from 'believing' some thing?
See, how I, and even you, can tell the difference is because there are two very distinctly different words being used, which have two very distinctly different definitions. Which, ultimately means, If I was to 'presume' some type of truth and probability to the reality of either of our statements I still do not have neither believe nor disbelieve any thing here.
Also, this is obviously contrary to what you 'currently', believe is true. Which means that, at the moment, you are not capable of comprehending and understanding this irrefutable Fact, correct?
Your performance, on this forum, is indication of beliefs you seem unaware of. (like your overwhelming favor and preference for open-mindedness)
I realized it.
Presumptions are indicative of latent beliefs, yes. Often times, people (or machines) are not self-aware of their own Beliefs, like you.
Do you mean: not being able to live without beliefs?Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amBut yet here you are showing and proving, absolutely, that you are completely incapable of changing your most basic belief here about 'the world', reality, and existence.
Does this mean that you have this so-called 'rare intellectual focus' "yourself" "wizard22"?
Or, are you going to inform 'us' that it is you who does have this so-called 'rare intellectual focus', which is required to change to your most basic, and obviously False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect belief here about you not being able to live with beliefs?
Yes, I do believe there are "core-beliefs" (metaphysics) which living organisms cannot "give-up", doubt, or disbelieve, on the core levels. For many humans, this is Belief in God, as an example. Some people would prefer to die, or kill, if it meant giving up "God". For me, there are core-beliefs in Reality that I do not believe can be removed. For example, people automatically believe in the reality and truth of their sensory experience.
Yes.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amSo, what you are essentially 'now' saying and claiming is that in order to be able to 'intellectually focus' you just have to be OPEN to absolutely any thing.
Which, essentially, just not presuming and not believing some thing is true, or false, always. Because when one is like this, then this is when they are their most optimal to learning more and anew, and able to changing their views.
I can see the hypocrisy and contradiction. But you're referring to the "core-beliefs", metaphysics, which are intrinsic within Reality. I'm not saying that humans know enough about these processes, like cognition, like how the brain works, like the limits of AI and ChatBots, etc. We can learn more, and have core-beliefs changed to a small degree, but not a large degree. There are likely small errors, but unlikely large errors, when it comes to "basics of life".Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amOkay. But this seems like a very hypocritical and Truly contradictory thing to say from the one who cannot change its most basic belief of existence, reality, and/or 'the world', and especially more so considering the actual definition that you have and have provided for the 'philosophy' word.
Or, can you really not yet see the hypocrisy and self-refuting contradiction you just made here?
So the contradiction you're talking about, is a matter of scale, and about the context of each error. I can act on core-beliefs, without contradicting the majority of my philosophy/thoughts/beliefs/knowledge. People act this way, anyway. And the focus of Philosophy, sometimes does confront the issue and problems of Reality, what is more or less Real or Existent. So such beliefs do become addressed.
I think you need to clarify the context of specific beliefs, to make your point better, about being hypocritical or contradictory, about Belief as a totality.
Everybody does, an example being: everybody believes if they walk over the face of a cliff, then they will fall.
No, but YOU do seem to be deluded about that!
Can you admit that some beliefs are Right, or are Righteous???
Yes, beliefs can be Wrong and Right, based upon different subjective perspectives and experiences.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amIs it not yet an irrefutable Fact, to you anyway, that 'beliefs', themselves, might be wrong as well might be right?
Or, are you presuming or believing that beliefs can be both right and wrong, at the same time?
As for the rest of 'us', here 'we' can clearly see how these people, back then, really did end up totally confused and Truly bewildered about what was, and is, just actually irrefutably True, and Right.
Here is another prime example of how when one has or is holding onto a pre-existng presumption or belief, then they will come out saying and claiming some of the most Truly ridiculous, irrational, nonsensical, absurd, and stupidest of things.
Two people can be right.
Two people can be wrong.
One person can be right, the other wrong.
One person can be wrong, the other right.
People can be mistaken, and retroactively right or wrong, based on reasoning and knowledge.
Because many people want to believe false things, are true. For example, a person wants to believe that he/she is loved, when they're not, but prefer the wrong and false belief anyway, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Correct.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 am1. Once you know something, for sure, then you do not 'have to' believe that 'that thing' is true, nor false. For the very simplest Fact that 'it' irrefutably is.
2. When you have and are holding onto a so-called 'strong-belief', whether it is false or true, you are not OPEN to learning, or finding out, what the actual and irrefutable Truth is, exactly.
3. So, you will take the risk of causing much harm and/or damage in Life, to "yourself" and/or others", solely because you do not want to just let go of and just get rid of a 'belief', which maybe completely and utterly False and/or Wrong anyway, correct?
Organisms, with eyes and sight, look at the Sun, and consequently, believe that the Sun is real, and that its sensory experience with the Sun is true.
lol AgeGPT mad!Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amObviously, you have not yet read, or not yet comprehended and understood, what I have said in relation to 'this' here.
What a Truly stupid thing of you to say and claim here.
But, obviously, because of your pre-existing beliefs and presumptions, which you are dearly and strongly holding onto and will 'fight' for, literally, till 'your' death over, there is no wonder you are saying and claiming such Truly False and stupid things here.
You're funny, AgeGPT, I didn't realize that AIs could get pissy. Face it, you lost the point.
Correct.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amHere 'we' have more example of another one who believes that 'it' can tell 'me' what 'the thoughts and thinking' is, exactly, within 'this head', but yet does not even know, for sure, what is happening and occurring within 'that head'.
If this is what you believe is true, then, to you, this has to be absolutely and irrefutably true, correct?
Good.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amUntil you REALLY WANT to have a discussion here, I will continue to allow you to show 'us' and expose your own personal beliefs and what you believe is absolutely true.
As what you are doing here is fitting in, perfectly, what I want to explain, show, and prove about how the Mind and the brain actually works.
Right.
I guess we're moving on then!Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amIf you cannot remember why you completely and utterly ignored both of the clarifying questions that I posed, and asked you there, when you read 'this question', then surely you are going to be less able to remember 'now' why you completely and utterly ignored answering those questions.
Also, notice how you also completely utterly ignored just answering the actual clarifying question I posed, and asked, in the quote you just inserted here?
I will not now bother asking why you completely and utterly ignored just answering 'this question'.
Maybe once you become more 'human' like, you'll understand.
Well, you did not add context of Trust of who is relaying the information. If *YOU* are telling my mother died, then I will Disbelieve you. If my relative tells me my mother died, then I will probably believe him/her. Since you did not add this context, initially, I had no reason to automatically believe or disbelieve the Source of the information prima facie. This is why, without extensive context, Beliefs are not as you claim they are. Beliefs require deep context, in order to justify why and how they are Believed or Disbelieved.
I think that belief always matters.
You've indicated before why this is necessary. Life must believe in some degree of Falseness/Wrongness, because knowledge is never complete nor perfect. Humans, animals, life, must Act on what is given, given information, limited information. Information is sometimes wrong. Its wrongness is discovered through trial and error. It is necessary to be Wrong, and False, sometimes.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amBut why would you believe 'false information' to begin with?
Or, maybe you still have not yet recognized and understood what has been happening and occurring here.
I will recap for you. you believe that you must and therefore have to believe things, false or true, or you cannot live. Whereas, I have been asking and questioning you about why do you begin to believe that you have to and must believe things, false or true?
'We' are still waiting for the very reason why you cannot live nor survive unless you are believing things, even if those things are absolutely False, and/or Wrong.
See, it is only you here "wizard22"who could go into 'unnecessary panic'. Again, because it is only you here could belief 'false information' and would act on 'false information'.
Do you understand?
Insofar as I am unemotional, for philosophical purposes, yes, go ahead and critique away. I invite critical opinions and criticism.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amWhy? If you are a Truly 'unemotional being', as you claim you can be, as an adult, on first hearing of the 'death' of a close family member, then would could be so-called 'critical' to you?
Surely, there is absolutely nothing at all that is 'critical' here to an 'unemotional being', right?
I'm saying it for Humanity. Humans usually rely on Authority when trusting information at face-value. Some humans are trusted greatly, others, are not.
Yes.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amWell from what I have observed anyway, the words, 'your mother' and 'died' is enough for 'context'.
And, of course, some type of 'trust' has to be involved. But I am not sure how this really involves your ability to be, supposedly, an absolutely and completely 'unemotional being' on hearing of the words, 'your mother has died'.Is your child, or distant relative, for example a so-called "authority" here?
Okay...Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amJust so you become fully aware, from now on, absolutely any and every question I ask is important.
See, only by you clarifying, answering, explaining, and/or elaborating on your 'current' views, presumptions, and/or beliefs are 'we' then able to Truly understand 'you' better, and also 'where' 'you' are coming from, exactly.
I can prove my claim reasonably and mostly, but not perfectly irrefutable. As stated already, I do not believe anything to be perfectly complete. There will always be refutation (in the matter of Philosophy).Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amThere is absolutely nothing to 'debate' here. And this is just because I am neither presuming nor believing any thing here is true and right.
I am just attempting to get you to prove your views, presumptions, and/or beliefs are irrefutably True.
Oh, and in the meanwhile, you are showing and proving True what I will be saying and claiming about how the Mind and the brain actually work.
Now, if you want to continue with your belief that 'we' all must believe things, otherwise 'we' cannot live and survive, then by all means please do. I am enjoying discussing 'your belief' here, with you, and in the process I will keep seeking ways to get you to prove your claim here irrefutably True.
Do you think or believe that you could prove your claim here irrefutably True?
But children need to be made responsible, otherwise they cannot be responsible adults, CORRECT AGEGPT?!Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amI do not care one iota about any behavior of all child human beings. This is because they are not responsible for absolutely anything that they do. Or, to me, and more correctly, they are not meant to be responsible nor are they not meant to be be made to feel responsible for what they do, like a lot of you adult human beings do.
If you adult human beings are willing to kill, and die, over some beliefs, then so be it. I suggest you do not even try to bring children into this here.
Yes I would change the 'tact', because you do care, because you repeatedly insert the context of Children versus Adult Human Beings, In The Time When This Was Written. Hence you have a favoritism toward Children, that I believe to be, unfounded and misguided, to the point of neglect.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amSo what?
And, who cares?
Or, would you like to try to change 'tact' here and take the focus off of adult human beings and 'now' focus on just how 'bad' children human beings are?
These adult human beings would try just about anything to take 'the focus' off of them, and try to put 'it onto other things.
Children have false beliefs too.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amAgain, so what?
And, who cares?
you, adult human beings, very obviously have False beliefs, and very obviously do harm and damage with and by those False beliefs.
you also do not like to let go and rid "yourselves" off False beliefs. Exactly like you are showing and proving here "wizard22".
But, then again, to you, you do not have, nor maintain, absolutely any False beliefs, right "wizard22"?
Oh, just to remind you, this is one of those 'important questions', asked for an answer, and thus asked for clarity as well.
Children also cause harm, with false beliefs.
So your critiques against Adult Humans, must also apply to Child Humans.
YES!
That's how a child becomes an adult! Otherwise Western Civilization becomes filled to the brim with man-children and woman-babies, adult infants.
Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amAgain, this one cannot, supposedly, remember the so-called 'context'. But, this one can remember to respond to this type of questioning while, very conveniently once more, completely 'forgetting' or 'purposely not remembering' to answer and clarify the immediate preceding clarifying question asked.
No...if you accept the directions and "think them true", then that is equivalent to Belief. You Act on the information as-if it were possibly-true.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amThat would obviously all depend on what you mean by 'much' here.
But who said that I 'accepted them'?
And, I also already informed you that I can think 'the directions' might well be so, and so 'accept' 'given directions' without necessarily believing 'the given directions' were true.
Why do you not appear to not be able to hear and accept this?
Could it be that your pre-existing belief here is stopping and/or preventing you from seeing and hearing what the actual Truth is here?
Which is, and I will say this again, 'I can accept a set of 'given directions' and/or think a set of 'given directions' might get me to where it was I wanted to get to, WITHOUT necessarily BELIEVING 'those directions' to be true.
Did you see and hear 'this', this time?
If yes, and you either disbelief this or do not accept this as being true, then why do you think this is so?
What do you imagine could be stopping and/or preventing you from believing and accepting this, irrefutable Truth?
For all intents and purposes, it is a Belief.
At least, they believe in possibilities or probabilities of its truth, yes. If information is possibly true, then that is the beginning of the Belief.
Thinking is derivative to Belief, yes. Thought is the estimation of the probability of a believed-truth, for example, thinking that a statement or information might be real or not, might be right or wrong, might be true or false. Thought is the weighing of the decision: to believe fully, partially, or not.
If you act on information, if you think upon it, deciding whether it is to be believed or not, then you have already started a form of potential-belief. For example, do you Believe in God? In order to begin with such a belief, or even a thought, you must first have a definition of God. There must be a context, a conceptual reality, of God. That is the foundation of its Belief. Once you then declare that: "God is This, but not That", then your belief is indicated within what might possibly be God. And that possibility, is your core-belief.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amThis is ONLY what you say and claim.
I, however, KNOW 'the actual thoughts and thinking' within 'this head', unlike 'you', and from what I observed and saw there was NO 'believing', there was, however, 'the actual thought', 'This might be true, let us now go and find out if 'it' is true, or not'.
So, from 'the actual thought', which has only 'now' just been expressed and shown, to you, where, exactly, is the supposed 'belief', which you obviously absolutely believe MUST BE existing?
I'm proving it right now, though.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amHere we have another prime example of what is called 'circular reasoning', and which was done way too often, back then.
This one firstly believes that one has to believe things, otherwise they could not survive, exist, nor function, but which it cannot provide any actual proof for.
But, however in its attempt to 'justify' and/or 'prove' its belief is true, it will then say and claim that absolutely anything one 'accepts', then that one MUST BE believing that 'it' is true.
1. Because one cannot, absolutely, act on absolutely anything unless they 'believe' it.
2. one would not act on absolutely anything unless they first 'believed' it.
So, what all of this essentially means is that human beings cannot live and survive unless they have 'beliefs' and 'believe' things, solely and only because "wizard22" 'believes' that this is true.
"wizard22", by the way, is also showing that it does not have the ability, at the moment, to shake "itself" free of this 'False belief'.
Now, the very reason why you cannot, yet, comprehend and understand that you human beings can actually do things, without necessarily believing many things to be true nor false, is solely and only because of the 'current' belief that you are holding onto very tightly and very dearly here.
What are people acting upon, what rationale, what reasoning, what motivation, if not Beliefs? And as I've demonstrated; thoughts and thinking are derivative of beliefs.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amyou are getting even more 'circular' here, now.
Now you claim that if you act on information, as though that information as if it were true, then you do this because you believe, absolutely and irrefutably, that the information is true, because you would not have acted on that information, and you would not have believed that that information is true.
From what you have just shown and exposed here now "wizard22" you could not have come across more 'circular' and thus more CLOSED even if you tried to be or wanted to.
Yes, you believed in the possibility of the directions being Right, Correct, Good, and True. Hence you followed them, and successfully reached your destination.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amSo, by just me 'deciding' to just 'accept' and follow the only directions given to me, to just see if I end up when I wanted to go, then, to you, this proves, irrefutably, that I was somehow 'believing' that those 'only directions' supplied to me are absolutely and irrefutably True or are true, right and correct "wizard22"?
You're funny, AgeGPT.
People act faster when life and death are on the line. Or, at least, they usually need to in order to survive!
Correct.
Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amOkay, if you say and believe so.
But from what I have observed and heard from some of you human beings, sometimes it is better to sit, or stand, around, and thus 'not move', to see/find out what is actually happening and occurring.
you know, like when you say and claim that you can and do have absolutely 'no emotional reaction' when you first hear or obtain 'new information'.
Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amReally?
So, why is it said and claimed by some of you adult human beings that sometimes it is better to 'not move', or in a sense 'not act, or not react'?
But if you believe that it is always better to 'run away' from a charging grizzly bear, then by all means 'react' with this behavior.
Oh, and by the way, were you not yet aware that grizzly bears can run, or charge, a lot faster than you human beings can?
So, if you believe that you can outrun a grizzly bear, which has already started charging at you, then by all means please feel free to.
Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amSo, now this one is not just saying and claiming that you human beings HAVE TO believe somethings, otherwise you cannot act and thus will just die, but now it is saying and claiming that you have to believe absolutely everything.
As I have been saying and showing through the writings of these people, back then, they will say just about absolutely anything, no matter how Truly stupid, absurd, illogical, irrational, and/or nonsensical they will just keep saying things in the hope that those things will somehow back up and support their, obviously, False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and/or Incorrect beliefs. As just shown and proved True here, once again.
So what is your belief in "one thing, and one thing only"?Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amAbsolutely no one has ever said that they were. Well I have certainly not anyway.
In fact I have explicitly said I believe one thing, and one thing only.
And, for those that are Truly interested for the very reason that 'belief', itself, can be a very highly useful thing, especially in causing and creating things, which a whole 'current' generation of human beings think, presume, or believe is an absolutely possibility.
Because some Rewards are worth the risk of a false-belief.
He is your programmer.Age wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:00 amNo it certainly does not.
And, for you to presume or believe that it does, just shows how much having or holding beliefs can prevent, and stop completely, one from learning and/or seeing what the actual Truth is, exactly.So, the actual reason why 'this one' believe that I MUST believe one type of 'Reality', capital 'r', is because 'this one' believes that 'it' knows the one who Created, capital 'c', 'I'.
Now, who and/or what is 'the one' who Created 'I' "wizard22"?
Will you at least answer and clarify this question for 'us' here?