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Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:25 am
by Philosophy Now
Myint Zan compares different ways of denying free will.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/159/Spinoza_and_Other_Determinists

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:33 am
by Gary Childress
At this moment, I'm thinking the debate concerning free will vs. determinism will never be resolved. However, I can't guarantee that I will hold this view forever.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:17 am
by attofishpi
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:33 am At this moment, I'm thinking the debate concerning free will vs. determinism will never be resolved. However, I can't guarantee that I will hold this view forever.
Well, the atheist consensus is that no views are held forever. Although the most optimistic ones, in the sense of humanity not being destroyed, would agree that humanities knowledge should continue long into the future, forever growing with more advanced engineering of selfie-sticks.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:09 pm
by Flannel Jesus
attofishpi wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:17 am
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:33 am At this moment, I'm thinking the debate concerning free will vs. determinism will never be resolved. However, I can't guarantee that I will hold this view forever.
Well, the atheist consensus is that no views are held forever. Although the most optimistic ones, in the sense of humanity not being destroyed, would agree that humanities knowledge should continue long into the future, forever growing with more advanced engineering of selfie-sticks.
So eventually we'll all be in agreement then! Death, the great unifier.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:53 pm
by attofishpi
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:09 pm
attofishpi wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:17 am
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:33 am At this moment, I'm thinking the debate concerning free will vs. determinism will never be resolved. However, I can't guarantee that I will hold this view forever.
Well, the atheist consensus is that no views are held forever. Although the most optimistic ones, in the sense of humanity not being destroyed, would agree that humanities knowledge should continue long into the future, forever growing with more advanced engineering of selfie-sticks.
So eventually we'll all be in agreement then! Death, the great unifier.
..but think of all the lovely photographs of the beautiful people smiling and stored forever upon the event horizon where information is never lost. 8)

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:07 pm
by nemos
Freedom is always a choice among available options, so it is very limited.
And every stick has two ends. I don't even know why, so many people like to stick to the ends of sticks and argue that his end is better than the other end. After all, both ends of the stick are important.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:30 pm
by Sculptor
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:33 am At this moment, I'm thinking the debate concerning free will vs. determinism will never be resolved. However, I can't guarantee that I will hold this view forever.
Yes, you are completely determined to hold that view.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 4:10 pm
by Impenitent
it has been determined that severed branches without excess mucilage are neither selfie or sticky...

-Imp

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:48 pm
by Gary Childress
Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:30 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:33 am At this moment, I'm thinking the debate concerning free will vs. determinism will never be resolved. However, I can't guarantee that I will hold this view forever.
Yes, you are completely determined to hold that view.
We'll have to see what fate has in store for me. Will I ever be able to change my mind? That's the big question.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:43 pm
by Sculptor
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:48 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:30 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:33 am At this moment, I'm thinking the debate concerning free will vs. determinism will never be resolved. However, I can't guarantee that I will hold this view forever.
Yes, you are completely determined to hold that view.
We'll have to see what fate has in store for me. Will I ever be able to change my mind? That's the big question.
Of course. Minds change all the time. It is caused by learning.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:52 pm
by Sculptor
nemos wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:07 pm Freedom is always a choice among available options, so it is very limited.
And every stick has two ends. I don't even know why, so many people like to stick to the ends of sticks and argue that his end is better than the other end. After all, both ends of the stick are important.
I would say that the shit-end of the stick is to be avoided.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:07 am
by nemos
Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:52 pm ... I would say that the shit-end of the stick is to be avoided.
And another argument will be launched about what should be considered as shit.
And that's how life will go in arguments about shit... :D
Without fertilizer in the spring, there will be no benefit in the fall.

Re: Spinoza & Other Determinists

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:32 am
by Sculptor
nemos wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:07 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:52 pm ... I would say that the shit-end of the stick is to be avoided.
And another argument will be launched about what should be considered as shit.
And that's how life will go in arguments about shit... :D
Without fertilizer in the spring, there will be no benefit in the fall.
Sadly we do not make enough use of this benefit as animal husbadry is under attack from those from the planet Vegan.
But whilst I agree that shit is good for the soil; what is good for the soil does not make a great hand lotion.