Crop Circles

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Lacewing
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Crop Circles

Post by Lacewing »

Moving part of a discussion to this new topic...
attofishpi wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:29 pm I come from Hampshire which back in the day was probably the most famous county for crop-circles. Well, I have come across docos where guys back then explained how they created these circles, and they actually showed them doing it with wooden two by fours and other sizes\lengths connected with ropes to ensure correct distances between the circles they drew. I think they even walked in and out of the fields on stilts!
Such an explanation (much like the famous but ultimately unbelievable Roswell 'weather balloon' story) might be easy to accept until we explore more information, such as below...

Here are excerpts from the link provided at the bottom. This information is commonly published in other sources as well. I'd welcome proof that any of this information has been fabricated. I'd also welcome discussion about the implications and the denial.

> Crop circles are mentioned in texts as far back as 1678

> The story that all crop circles were originated by two simple, elderly hoaxers with planks of wood, string and a board, was apparently a disinformation campaign tied to the British Ministry of Defense, in collusion with the CIA, among others to quell growing public interest in the phenomenon.

> To date there have been over 9000 reported and documented crop circles throughout the world, some occupying areas as large as 200,000 sq. feet.

> That people with a good amount of training can go into a field and eventually create a coherent pattern has never been the issue. The issue is that no man-made crop circle has satisfactorily replicated the features associated with the real phenomenon which has baffled scientists and researchers.

> Worldwide, some 4000 crop circles have been created by a force totally at odds with modern science. Central to the hoax angle is that a physical object is required to flatten the crop to the ground, resulting in the breaking of the plant stems. In genuine formations the stems are not broken but bent (left). The plants are subjected to a short and intense burst of heat which softens the stems without damaging the plants. Plant biologists and farmers are baffled. It is the single-most method of identifying the real phenomenon. Research and laboratory tests suggest that microwave or ultrasound may be the only method capable of producing such an effect.

> Other features that cannot be replicated by hoaxes are the plants' expanded epidermal walls, and drastically extended node bends in fresh formations. In genuine formations there is also a disruption of comparative analysis of the plant's crystalline structure. Yet in all cases, the plants are not damaged and will continue to grow and ripen if left untouched. This would not be possible had they been trampled by force.

> Genuine crop circles are areas of gently laid and swirled plants which create a floor in the same spiraled logarithmic proportions as the Fibonacci Series or Golden Mean, the vortex nature used to create precision organisms such as shells, sunflowers, the bones on the human hand and galaxies; the floor of crop circles can have up to five layers of weaving, all in counter-flow to each other, with every seed head intact and placed beside each other as if arranged in a museum case.

> Hoaxes, by comparison, bear a stylistic resemblance to tuffs of greasy, uncombed hair- and, of course, all their plants have been trampled, bruised and crushed.

> Other anomalies indicate the ability of the Circlemakers to increase infra red output within and around a new formation, indicating that both the heat content of the plants and the watershed have been affected. Evidence of four non-naturally occurring, short-life radioactive isotopes in the soil inside genuine crop circles has been detected (these dissipate after three or four hours), and the soil in around them appears to have been baked.

> Mathematically, genuine crop circles encode obscure theorems based on Euclidian geometry as well as the unalterable principles of sacred geometry. They have the capacity to alter the local electromagnetic field so that compasses cannot locate north, cameras, cellular phones and batteries fail to operate, and aircraft equipment fails whilst flying over formations. Then there are the Geiger counters recording levels of background radiation up to 300% above normal, radio frequencies falling dramatically within their perimeters, animals in local farms avoiding that particular area of the field or simply acting agitated hours before one materializes, and car batteries in entire villages failing to operate the morning after one is found nearby. In some of the major events, local power outages are reported.

> They are generally formed at night during the shortest evenings of the English year when darkness lasts but four hours, in fields eagerly watched by farmers, military, laser alarms, scientists or hundreds of enthusiasts in their sleeping bags hoping to be the lucky ones to witness a crop circle forming. Yet despite many stakeouts and fields rigged with top surveillance equipment, crop circles have appeared out of the mist right under the noses of those looking for them.

> At Stonehenge in 1996, a pilot reported seeing nothing while flying above the monument, yet 45 minutes later a huge 900ft formation resembling the Julia Set computer fractal, comprising 145 meticulously laid circles, lay beside the heavily guarded monument.

https://www.people.vcu.edu/~dbromley/cr ... esLink.htm
accelafine
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by accelafine »

Is this satire?
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Lacewing
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by Lacewing »

One of the most complex crop circles...

https://www.science.org/content/article ... rop-circle
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Lacewing
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Re: Crop Circles

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accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:58 am Is this satire?
Do you have information to the contrary of the information presented... or do you just imagine that nothing exists beyond your awareness?
accelafine
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by accelafine »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:11 am
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:58 am Is this satire?
Do you have information to the contrary of the information presented... or do you just imagine that nothing exists beyond your awareness?
So that would be a yes then? Do I have 'information' that proves fairies don't exist in reality? No. I don't. I suppose that means they must exist then.
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Lacewing
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by Lacewing »

accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:20 am
Lacewing wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:11 am Do you have information to the contrary of the information presented... or do you just imagine that nothing exists beyond your awareness?
Do I have 'information' that proves fairies don't exist in reality? No. I don't. I suppose that means they must exist then.
So... if you don't know about something, it must be fairies. Got it!
accelafine
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by accelafine »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:35 am
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:20 am
Lacewing wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:11 am Do you have information to the contrary of the information presented... or do you just imagine that nothing exists beyond your awareness?
Do I have 'information' that proves fairies don't exist in reality? No. I don't. I suppose that means they must exist then.
So... if you don't know about something, it must be fairies. Got it!
It's a valid comparison. What's 'your' theory on crop circles then? Don't forget the fine details of how they would be created (one that's more likely than the one that the actual humans who actually created them gave).
Impenitent
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by Impenitent »

crop circles could be made by humans
crop circles could be made by aliens flying in space ships
crop circles could be made by suicidal plants that bend over in desperation

the crop squares on the other hand are definitely made by aliens

-Imp
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Lacewing
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by Lacewing »

accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:46 am
Lacewing wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:35 am So... if you don't know about something, it must be fairies. Got it!
It's a valid comparison.
Based on what?
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:46 amWhat's 'your' theory on crop circles then? Don't forget the fine details of how they would be created...
Why don't you provide the 'fine details' of your solid reasoning for dismissal? Have you considered the information I've already provided?

I don't have a theory about them, but they appear to be present and real in our world, well-documented and studied, revealing notably unusual characteristics. What more do you need in order to notice and consider them? Are they in conflict with your beliefs?
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Lacewing
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Re: Crop Circles

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accelafine
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by accelafine »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:40 am
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:46 am
Lacewing wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:35 am So... if you don't know about something, it must be fairies. Got it!
It's a valid comparison.
Based on what?
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:46 amWhat's 'your' theory on crop circles then? Don't forget the fine details of how they would be created...
Why don't you provide the 'fine details' of your solid reasoning for dismissal? Have you considered the information I've already provided?

I don't have a theory about them, but they appear to be present and real in our world, well-documented and studied, revealing notably unusual characteristics. What more do you need in order to notice and consider them? Are they in conflict with your beliefs?
Just asked a simple question. I don't have any 'beliefs'. That's kind of the point.
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Lacewing
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by Lacewing »

accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:02 am Just asked a simple question. I don't have any 'beliefs'. That's kind of the point.
:lol: You wouldn't have asked your snarky question if you had read the information in my post regarding documented measurements and characteristics for consideration. It's clear that it wasn't satire, nor about fairies or beliefs.

A visible phenomenon that has been seen and studied by so many people (unless proven otherwise) seems worthy of discussion. I realize that a lot of people don't like to talk about things they can't explain. But it seems that a philosophy forum should be open to exploring visible realities. This forum certainly spends enough time discussing invisible ones!
accelafine
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by accelafine »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:35 am
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:02 am Just asked a simple question. I don't have any 'beliefs'. That's kind of the point.
:lol: You wouldn't have asked your snarky question if you had read the information in my post regarding documented measurements and characteristics for consideration. It's clear that it wasn't satire, nor about fairies or beliefs.

A visible phenomenon that has been seen and studied by so many people (unless proven otherwise) seems worthy of discussion. I realize that a lot of people don't like to talk about things they can't explain. But it seems that a philosophy forum should be open to exploring visible realities. This forum certainly spends enough time discussing invisible ones!
Seems to me that you have already made up your mind, considering the fact that people have admitted to making these 'mysterious' circles and even explained how they did it. I guess that's not 'interesting' enough for you. Where do YOU think they come from then? Don't be shy. It's clear that you have given this some thought.
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Lacewing
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by Lacewing »

Impenitent wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:04 am crop circles could be made by humans
crop circles could be made by aliens flying in space ships
crop circles could be made by suicidal plants that bend over in desperation

the crop squares on the other hand are definitely made by aliens
Any of those could be true. Maybe they are spontaneous energetic manifestations from the collective subconscious of humankind. Some rather intricate designs across a large area... manifesting very quickly, often in the dark of night... and which nobody sees being made?!
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Lacewing
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Re: Crop Circles

Post by Lacewing »

accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:53 am Seems to me...
Which is based on what you make up without looking at more information. So... not very reliable. :lol:
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:53 am ...that you have already made up your mind, considering the fact that people have admitted to making these 'mysterious' circles and even explained how they did it.
What have I made up my mind about? Yes, of course, many crop circles are manmade. The information I provided is pointing out the characteristics in some that seem to defy manmade creations. Why wouldn't that be interesting to consider? Why instantly 'shut it down'?
accelafine wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:53 am Where do YOU think they come from then?
I already told you that I don't know. Do you think it's only worthwhile to explore things that you can claim to know?
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