Moral Compass

[attofishpi]

Gary Childress suggested common sense as a moral compass.

Are the Ten Commandments common sense?

No they are not.
The first four are a bloody waste of time.
When you could be making commandments; to not wage unjust wars or to protect children, women and other vulnerable people from abuse, you throw away nearly half your commandments on getting on your knees for god.


PS.
DO not forget this winter.
BREAK NOT THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT, lest yea burn in hellfire

image_2023-12-05_161245546.png

The commandments have varying 'version' numbers 1 through 10. The original Torah i think had more than 10.
Also one was though shalt not murder (translated from Hebrew) - not 'kill'.

What is this fifth one you are referring to?

Also, re "to not wage unjust wars or to protect children, women and other vulnerable people from abuse"

..maybe that stuff was a given, common sense..didn't need to be explicitly stated.? Just an idea.

[Gary Childress]

Gary Childress suggested common sense as a moral compass.

Are the Ten Commandments common sense?

No they are not.
The first four are a bloody waste of time.
When you could be making commandments; to not wage unjust wars or to protect children, women and other vulnerable people from abuse, you throw away nearly half your commandments on getting on your knees for god.


PS.
DO not forget this winter.
BREAK NOT THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT, lest yea burn in hellfire

image_2023-12-05_161245546.png

The commandments have varying 'version' numbers 1 through 10. The original Torah i think had more than 10.
Also one was though shalt not murder (translated from Hebrew) - not 'kill'.

What is this fifth one you are referring to?

Also, re "to not wage unjust wars or to protect children, women and other vulnerable people from abuse"

..maybe that stuff was a given, common sense..didn't need to be explicitly stated.? Just an idea.

The 10 Commandments only apply to ordinary people. Government officials are exempt.

[Alexis Jacobi]

What is severely self-evident is that a god explanation no-longer applies based on our current state of knowledge. God explains nothing except in old scripture when people knew virtually nothing of how the world works.

It depends on what *world* you are dealing with and making reference to.

The outside world

The inside world

It is very true that explanations of all exterior phenomena (except possible “beginning” and the existence of amazing “order”) cannot be understood through any method described in the OT or the NT.

Nor can the world be moved through the use of God (that is a crude way of putting it — I mean one cannot pray to God to send electricity to power your toaster).

But there is no end to the description of people, everywhere, in all times, who interact with divinity on an inner plane.

The “psyche” of man it seems to me is always and may always remain “involved with god”.

It is curious that a hardcore atheist must deny god and to be consistent must also deny the possibility of relationship on an inner plane since on the outer plane god became invisible.

Jung, Campbell, Robert Bly and Terrence McKenna all wanted to re-enchant the world on both planes.

There is another level too: the level when the world of inner enchantment intersects with the outer world and “lights up”. As for example when you experience a manifestation of inner-world material that comes at you through the outer world.

The issue with IC and with many within imperious Judaism and Christianity is that their own projected rigidity turns the god- or divinity-figure into a demonic entity.

We need a concrete example to see this and I believe the present on-going Israel/Palestine enactment shows this. The self-described Sons of Light show that really they act as Sons of Darkness. This is playing out on the world stage replete with end-of-world psychosis and the strange phantasy of Messiah. (For Chabad believers the presidency of Netanyahu was supposed to herald the (Jewish) Messiah.

But wait! Messiah already came …. and here the story takes a very dark turn.

How do you explain that one, Immanuel?

And will you (please!) sign up for the email course! I want to usher you into a fully lighted world!

(The cost is $9,999.00, payable in advance of course).

[Sculptor]

Gary Childress suggested common sense as a moral compass.

Are the Ten Commandments common sense?

No they are not.
The first four are a bloody waste of time.
When you could be making commandments; to not wage unjust wars or to protect children, women and other vulnerable people from abuse, you throw away nearly half your commandments on getting on your knees for god.


PS.
DO not forget this winter.
BREAK NOT THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT, lest yea burn in hellfire

image_2023-12-05_161245546.png

The commandments have varying 'version' numbers 1 through 10. The original Torah i think had more than 10.
Also one was though shalt not murder (translated from Hebrew) - not 'kill'.

What is this fifth one you are referring to?

Also, re "to not wage unjust wars or to protect children, women and other vulnerable people from abuse"

..maybe that stuff was a given, common sense..didn't need to be explicitly stated.? Just an idea.

The problem is that the is no "TEN COMMANDMENTS" written anywhere in the bible.
Fifth is "Graven Images".

How and no - not common sense to protect women and children - oh and slavery.
Child abuse, misogyny and slavery have occupied the majority of Chrisendom. And still exists.
In fact I would go so far as to say that the movements against slavery, misogyny and child abuse go right along with the challenge of religion, secularism and the rise of atheism.

PS are you trying to say that we need 4 to tellus to worship god because that in NOT common sense???

[Alexis Jacobi]

Even me and Lacewing are getting along!!!

How wonderful.

Through her influence I bought some crystals and set them around the house but I haven’t felt anything yet. I even tried dancing naked at the last full moon. Nothing!

[attofishpi]

No they are not.
The first four are a bloody waste of time.
When you could be making commandments; to not wage unjust wars or to protect children, women and other vulnerable people from abuse, you throw away nearly half your commandments on getting on your knees for god.


PS.
DO not forget this winter.
BREAK NOT THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT, lest yea burn in hellfire

image_2023-12-05_161245546.png

The commandments have varying 'version' numbers 1 through 10. The original Torah i think had more than 10.
Also one was though shalt not murder (translated from Hebrew) - not 'kill'.

What is this fifth one you are referring to?

Also, re "to not wage unjust wars or to protect children, women and other vulnerable people from abuse"

..maybe that stuff was a given, common sense..didn't need to be explicitly stated.? Just an idea.

The problem is that the is no "TEN COMMANDMENTS" written anywhere in the bible.
Fifth is "Graven Images".

How and no - not common sense to protect women and children - oh and slavery.
Child abuse, misogyny and slavery have occupied the majority of Chrisendom. And still exists.
In fact I would go so far as to say that the movements against slavery, misogyny and child abuse go right along with the challenge of religion, secularism and the rise of atheism.

PS are you trying to say that we need 4 to tellus to worship god because that in NOT common sense???

You are correct re 10 Commandments..

Exodus 20:2-17 (King James Version):
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Deuteronomy 5:6-21 (King James Version):
6 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
11 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee.
13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
17 Thou shalt not kill.
18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19 Neither shalt thou steal.
20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.

I love the bit about not coveting someone's ass!!!

[attofishpi]

Even me and Lacewing are getting along!!!

How wonderful.

Through her influence I bought some crystals and set them around the house but I haven’t felt anything yet. I even tried dancing naked at the last full moon. Nothing!

I wish I could laugh at that, but I may compromise what I have earnestly attempted to restore.

[Harbal]

I even tried dancing naked at the last full moon. Nothing!

You have to do it on a neighbour's lawn, making a lot of noise, and something is almost guaranteed to happen.

[attofishpi]

Since everyone knows I AM THE Life of Brian (as prophesized), I actually went into Bethlehem following Jesus but I was on a wonky donkey.

[attofishpi]

I even tried dancing naked at the last full moon. Nothing!

You have to do it on a neighbour's lawn, making a lot of noise, and something is almost guaranteed to happen.

..but only if your neighbour doesn't own a shotgun (a mystic friend told me)

[Alexis Jacobi]

Note Bene: It must be understood that IC understands his doctrinal truths as being of a most serious nature. Literally the life or death of the soul. If those he attempts to preach to — and this is his chosen role: preacher of the Gospel — do not or cannot take his doctrines seriously, that is a form of blasphemy.

Where I stand — and my discourse and presentation has been in the context of this forum established relationally to IC’s ultra-dogmatic position — is not in denial of what I understand to operate essentially and foundationally in IC’s dogmatic position, but rather to see it from an expanded position.

The issue? I resolve it down to the question: How seriously does one take life? Or in relation to what should one, must one, be serious? But all of this depends on entire sets of predicates about value.

IC seeks to elicit “conversion”. But he has set up an absolute monolith that one must become subservient to and must convert to.

That ultra-possessive HaShem he is always referencing.

How could Seeds, for example, who is certainly a serious man, be converted to IC’s demiurge? He couldn’t.

Lacewing? Harbal? Dontaskme? Atto? Sculptor? Me?

But what about this issue of seriousness people!?

And what about The Goy’s Teeth?

[Dubious]

What is severely self-evident is that a god explanation no-longer applies based on our current state of knowledge. God explains nothing except in old scripture when people knew virtually nothing of how the world works.

The “psyche” of man it seems to me is always and may always remain “involved with god”.

...only if god operates as a placeholder for a mystery without actually being one itself. A mystery should be allowed to flow wherever it leads and not dam itself up with a series of concepts which offer no insight.

It is curious that a hardcore atheist must deny god and to be consistent must also deny the possibility of relationship on an inner plane since on the outer plane god became invisible.

It's not necessary to affirm or deny god. The most potent catalyst as far as one's "inner plane" is concerned is not to think of god at all. It's a concept not in the least necessary or desirable when traveling one's inner plane as you call it, without the extra impediment of stop signs and traffic lights on the way. It's a relationship which identifies with the mystical, but cannot be experienced if the conceptual is not negated, which god is usually a highly personalized instant of.

Just as science has no need for god, neither does the psyche. It serves no purpose! The psyche is an ocean to be traveled without any helmsman guiding it, subject only to its own currents. It's the kind of mental travel which offers only experience but no goal.

[Dubious]

What is severely self-evident is that a god explanation no-longer applies based on our current state of knowledge.

You're actually in the vast minority if you think that. According to the CIA Factbook, at least 96% of humanity on this planet still thinks that God is a live issue. So it's not at all "self-evident," and certainly not "severely." You'll need to justify that claim to most of the planet.

What I stated was that god is not an explanation of anything in which, obviously, the statistics of belief don't apply. Whether it's 1% or 99% who believe has no bearing on whether said beliefs are in any way valid or yield any probability of being so.

God explains nothing except in old scripture when people knew virtually nothing of how the world works.

That's called the "God of the Gaps" argument. The idea is that God only stands as a relevant explanation of things so long as we don't really know what causes them.

Only by an infinitesimal probability are any gaps left for god or gods to exist in. These gaps, intentional or not, consisted mostly of our gaps as placeholder functions surrounded by what was already known, very much like the emerging resolution of a vast picture puzzle.

Most of the gods we created rank as travesties,

The Bible completely agrees. It says, "Can a person make gods for himself? But they are not gods!" (Jer. 6:22)

...and the most famous travesty among them is Yahweh himself, the mastermind in the creation of ethnicity and separation. There was no Jew or Gentile when Adam was created; there were no such distinctions or distortions until the time of Abraham when god, the creator of the complete human, decided on a Chosen People making himself the scourge of others in the process.

Some god!

...that idiot god whose first commandment was to have no other gods before him

For your own sake, please be very careful. I'm not threatening you, because I have no power to do so, so take this in the right spirit, please: it's just information for you, but very relevant information to your welfare, I believe. Jesus Himself said, "But I tell you that for every careless word that people speak, they will give an account of it on the day of judgment." (Matthew 12:36)

Thank you! Given your implicit belief in the bible, I respect your warning.

Two things, I'll try to keep it short.

1 - by that command, Yahweh put himself in the league of all the surrounding gods but demanded that distinction only for himself, forcing his chosen into a singular belief. In reality, that technique became a function of nation-building with its specific characteristics in which Yahweh became an imaginary, practical overlord...a kind of Übermensch figure with a rotten temper and a whip to keep his people in check.

2- but mostly, in the comparison between god AS CREATOR and what IT created. The bible depicts an ethnically bound god having supposedly created as we now know, and the ancients could not possibly imagine, a universe of many billions of galaxies with many trillions of planets surrounding other stars. It's a dichotomy words can no-longer convey; it amounts to a separation which cannot be mended by any means imaginable that such a perverse creature as Yahweh could ever blend with a Cosmos still in the process of revealing its dimensions.

The only thing which makes sense, pertaining to scripture, is how the lack of knowing installed the gods in the human psyche in their approach to the world given the information they had.

[Harbal]

How could Seeds, for example, who is certainly a serious man, be converted to IC’s demiurge? He couldn’t.

Lacewing? Harbal? Dontaskme? Atto? Sculptor? Me?

But what about this issue of seriousness people!?

And what about The Goy’s Teeth?

He seems to think, as do many religious people, that those of us without religious beliefs have a "God shaped" hole inside us. I suppose its hard for them to imagine it otherwise. There may be something in that idea, as many do seem to harbour what they like to call "spiritual" notions of some sort. But perhaps some of us do not have that hole inside us, or if we do, it isn't God shaped.

[seeds]

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