Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
nemos wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:09 am
You are not destined to know everything, but this does not prevent you from formulating and expressing your attitude. If it is impossible to cope with the circumstances, it can be helpful to change the attitude towards those circumstances.
Agreed.
This is how it seems to me...
If we 'knew everything', all of 'this seemingly-physical world' might cease and dissolve away.
To even BEGIN to just START IMAGINING that one or ALL of 'you', human beings, could even come CLOSE TO KNOWING EVERY 'thing' is just ABSURD, in the extreme, but to then BEGIN to IMAGINE would the 'consequences' could be takes 'the extremities' to a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL.
'you', human beings, individually AND collectively could NEVER KNOW absolutely EVERY 'thing'. FULL STOP.
But, IF absolutely ANY one wants to BELIEVE otherwise, then PLEASE feel FREE TO.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
Part of the fascination of this dream/world is due to our lack of knowing. Our 'unknowing' makes the experience possible.
So, according to 'your' so-called "logic" here "lacewing", are 'you' here suggesting that if 'one' 'knows' some 'thing', then 'that one' can NOT 'experience'?
If no, then what are 'you' here suggesting or MEANING, EXACTLY?
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
And within this life/world, we spend so much time on establishing ultimate 'knowing'.
Like, for example, being FIXED, RIGID, and/or FIXATED on the, supposed, 'already established knowing' that there is NO 'one truth', NOR 'one path', right?
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
Which is like dismantling the dream we are in, instead of experiencing it.
And, OBVIOUSLY, having and HOLDING ONTO the, supposed, 'already established knowledge' that 'There is NO one truth' does, or does NOT, allow 'the experiencing' of what 'you' call 'the dream', but which "others" might call just 'Life', Itself?
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
There is value in retaining the open and adventurous spirit that is most often demonstrated by young children.
I WOULD AGREE WITH and ACCEPT 'this knowledge' that 'you' ARE PRESENTING here "lacewing", however, doing so MIGHT JUST LEAD 'us' TO 'one truth' AND/OR 'one path', which MIGHT JUST HELP in the CREATING of a MUCH BETTER 'world, dream, or life', FOR and WITH EVERY one.
WHICH just could NEVER be 'the case', right, as there is NO 'one truth' NOR 'one path', to 'you', correct?
Also, and by the way, is there A human being, among ANY OF 'you', that could provide absolutely ANY 'thing' in relation to there being NO 'value', in ANY way AT ALL, in retaining the OPEN and 'adventurous spirit' that IS IN absolutely EVERY 'young child'?
IF absolutely ANY 'human being' could provide absolutely ANY reason for NOT being ABSOLUTELY OPEN, and ABSOLUTELY CURIOS, AT ABSOLUTELY ANY 'time' or 'moment', then PLEASE 'pass on' 'your' KNOWLEDGE and EXPLANATION here.
ALSO, DO NOT CONFUSE 'your' OWN Wrongly LEARNED BELIEF that 'being OPEN', itself, as a Truly MATURED or GROWN UP ADULT human being, COULD LEAD 'you' TO being MANIPULATED, LEARNING, and/or BELIEVING 'things' that are just NOT True, NOT Right, NOT Accurate, or NOT Correct, as a GOOD REASON as to NOT being ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY Truly OPEN ALWAYS.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
They know how to have great fun without being intent on 'knowing' certainties, limitations, standards, etc.
Have 'you', "lacewing" become MORE 'content' and MORE 'happy', and are having MORE 'fun' 'now' AFTER HOLDING the 'CERTAIN and LIMITING knowledge' that THERE IS NO 'one truth' NOR NO 'one path'?
I KNOW, FOR CERTAIN, HAVE FAR MORE 'fun' NOT 'knowing' 'this so-called knowledge'.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
Of course, knowledge is useful for the adult world in order to build and manage the human 'empire'
BUT it IS the so-called 'human empire', build BY 'you', adult human beings, which has RUINED and CONTINUES TO COMPLETELY and UTTERLY DESTROY 'the life and the world' for EVERY 'thing' ELSE, INCLUDING 'your' OWN Truly OPEN CURIOUS and ADVENTUROUS, while AT the SAME TIME ABSOLUTELY DESTROYING 'their DREAMS'.
'False, Wrong, Inaccurate, AND Incorrect knowledge' IS NEVER EVER 'useful' in MOVING TOWARDS, ACHIEVING, and OBTAINING the EXACT SAME ACTUAL GOAL, that is WITHIN ALL of 'you', human beings, young AND old.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
-- but the open and adventurous spirit that comes from acceptance of 'unknowing' need not be lost.
'unknowing' is NEVER NOT 'there'. 'unknowing' just gets COVERED UP WITH and BY the Wrongly LEARNED 'love' of WANTING TO appear SMARTER than what one REALLY IS. Which IS ANOTHER COMPLETELY UNFORTUNATE CONSEQUENCE and RESULT of a COMPLETELY Wrong DISCIPLINED, and Wrongly LEARNED and TAUGHT, 'teaching and learning-system', in the Wrongly LABELLED 'educational-system'.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
I think we have a great opportunity to create and explore within this landscape regardless of whatever ultimate reasons we are here.
But the FUNDAMENTAL REASON OF WHY 'you', human beings, ARE HERE, LEADS DIRECTLY in regards to the EXPLORATION, the UNCOVERING, and the DISCOVERY, of 'ANSWERS to 'things' like:
WHY ARE 'we' HERE, in Life?
WHAT IS Right AND Wrong, in Life?
WHO AM 'I', which IS ALIVE, and LIVING, EXACTLY? And, (what might be the BEST QUESTION TO BE ANSWERED),
HOW can 'I' FIND the ANSWERS/SOLUTIONS to ALL of 'our' QUESTIONS/PROBLEMS?
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
Fathoming the seemingly unfathomable of our temporary world need not take the place of enjoying that temporary world.
BUT 'trying to' LIMIT and/or put BOUNDARIES ONTO the ONLY REAL 'eternal and ever-lasting world', like 'you' ARE 'trying to' do here "lacewing" ONLY CONTRADICTS what 'you' are suggesting "other's" DO.
The 'ACTUAL world' has NEVER been UNFATHOMABLE, and, IN FACT, UNDERSTANDING, KNOWING, AND FATHOMING the 'ONE and ONLY REAL and ACTUAL world' IS FAR MORE SIMPLER and FAR MORE EASIER than MOST of 'you', people, here, when this is being written, FIRST THINK and REALIZE.
ONCE one OBTAINS, and/or LEARNS, and thus KNOWS THE ANSWER to the MIGHT BE 'BEST QUESTION' above here, then that one, literally HAS the KNOW -H.O.W. of HOW to ANSWER ALL OF the Truly MEANINGFUL QUESTIONS, IN Life.
ONCE 'this' IS OBTAINED, THEN 'fathoming' the 'seemingly unfathomable' is Truly VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASY, INDEED.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
For example, one does not need to know the source of the ocean and all that is in it in order to experience the exhilaration and mastery of surfing its waves.
But does one HAVE TO LEARN and/or KNOW absolutely ANY 'thing' to be able the so-called 'mastery of surfing', itself?
ALSO, one does NOT have to come here, to this forum, and TELL "others" what they ARE FIXATED ON and WITH, like; There is NO 'one truth', to just keep EXPERIENCING and EXPLORING, MORE.
BUT, some people become SO RIGID in 'their views' that they PREFER TO DO 'the former', RATHER than 'the latter', here.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
nemos wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:09 am
In my understanding, life is an opportunity that is very individual for individuals. Therefore, it is quite pointless to compare your life with another's, because your opportunity is yours and others' opportunity is theirs respectively. Of course, it is quite nice if, for some reason, your achievements can prove useful to others, but it does not change the essence of the matter. We come into this world on our own, and we will also leave it on our own. Others may witness it, but they cannot be participants in it.
I think this speaks well to the potential of such vast experience and perspective. So many individuals/representations... and yet look at how we humans try to organize people and judge according to limited groups.
FIND OUT WHY 'you', individually, DO 'this' "lacewing", THEN 'you' WILL HAVE 'the CAUSE', and WITH KNOWING 'the CAUSE' then 'you' will HAVE 'the knowledge' FROM PREVENTING "yourself" FROM EVER 'trying to' ORGANIZE people and FROM JUDGING "others" according to LIMITED GROUPS, AGAIN.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
We are so addicted to
density.
WHY ARE 'you', "lacewing", SO ADDICTED to 'density'?
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
I think the vastness that is actually being represented is awe-inspiring... and then, I consider that all of life (represented as 'individuals' and so much diversity) is actually ONE. (I don't call it 'God' because I think that term is often used to refer to something 'separate'.)
WHY would 'you' even think or ASSUME such a 'thing', "lacewing"?
FIND the reason OUT WHY, then 'you' can, AGAIN, PREVENT "yourself" FROM DOING the SAME Wrong, NEXT TIME.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
There is nothing for me to do but 'my part'
AND, which 'you' ARE DOING PERFECTLY HERE, NOW.
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
-- surfing life as well as possible, with as much awareness and useful energy as I can -- as part of the ONE.
BUT, as a Truly GROWN UP or MATURE ADULT, what would the ACTUAL PURPOSE BE of have absolutely NO 'intent' of KNOWING 'things', FOR SURE and WITH CERTAINTY?
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
I don't need to feel that I am any more than that.
BUT, 'you' appear to have a VERY STRONG DESIRE and/or NEED to EXPRESS 'your' VIEWS and/or LEARNED and OBTAINED 'knowledge' and 'knowing' here.
Also, what would the POINT BE, if ANY, to 'you' "lacewing", OF so-called 'surfing life', as well as possible, with as much AWARENESS and USEFUL ENERGY as 'you' can, EXACTLY?
Furthermore, what are the words,
'as well as possible', in relation TO, EXACTLY?
'useful energy', in relation TO, EXACTLY? And,
Would there be ANY REAL PURPOSE OF HAVING 'as MUCH AWARENESS, as you can', if 'you' were ONLY going to 'surf', or 'live', 'life' ALONE, and NOT SHARE, WITH "others", what 'you' have LEARNED, in 'your' EXPERIENCES?
Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:56 pm
Thanks for inspiring the thoughtful conversation.
Hopefully, 'you' WILL PROVIDE some 'knowledgeable answers/reply' to KEEP 'this' GOING.