My ideas about transgenderism

[lousmith]

Hi Everyone

I wish to express my views about transgenderism here and I would be very grateful if any of you could let me know what you think.

I would like to start by talking about differences between the brains of females and males.

I believe that at birth, there are no differences between the brains of females and males with regards to their average potential to be able to do mathematics and science and to think logically.

I believe that any differences like the differences mentioned above between the brains of adult females and males are 100% due to how our sexist society treats and nurtures girls and boys. I don't believe that chromosomes have anything to do with these differences.

As an aside, I will add here that I actually believe that most people, regardless of gender, are not brilliant at thinking logically so if a man hears a woman saying something that he thinks is illogical and he thinks to himself "typical woman!" then not only is he being sexist, he is also being a hypocrite.

So, does this mean that I don't believe that there are any innate (at birth) differences between the brains of females and males whatsoever? No it does not. I believe that the innate differences between the brains of females and males are basically artistic and creative in nature and are to do with how they like to express themselves. I believe that these differences determine the sort of colours, shapes and designs that women and men prefer to create and enjoy. This obviously extends to the sort of clothing women and men like to wear.

I therefore do believe that there are such things as female brains and male brains but they do not, on average, differ in innate intelligence.

I would now like to talk about intersexuality. Most people will probably think of confused genitalia when they hear the word intersex. However, I think that the broadest definition of intersexuality is when any part of a persons body does not match the gender of other parts of their body. I therefore believe that transgenderism (where the brain is a different gender to the rest of the body) is a form of intersexuality.

A lot of transphobic people believe that it is impossible for a person whose body is one gender to have a brain of the opposite gender to their body. I believe that given that we know that other forms of intersexuality do indeed happen then it is illogical to believe that brain/body intersexuality is impossible.

I think that a lot of people will agree with me that a "person" is basically their brain. This means that a female brain is a female person and a male brain is a male person.

This means that a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man.

Finaly, I believe that a nonbinary person has an intersex brain. However, this does not necessarily mean that all intersex brains are nonbinary. There are lots of different ways in which a brain can be intersex.

What do you all think?

[Trajk Logik]

The problem is that a vast majority of transgender people do no point to the differences in their brains but to the sexist tropes of Western cultures, as in preferring pink, dresses and long hair and vice versa - none of which has anything to do with one's sexual biology, hence their sexist nature.

Men and women are different in their sexual biology and their brains are wired differently to be able to handle those differences. For instance, point to the part of the brain in a man who claims to be a woman that handles the menstrual cycle. The difference in hormone levels have an impact on our behavior. Out sexual parts have an impact on how we behave and how we think.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-res ... in-anatomy
https://stanmed.stanford.edu/how-mens-a ... different/
https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is- ... nd-2721837

Men can wear dresses and make-up but that does not change their biology - only how others in the society interpret their sex. In a society where it is unlawful to walk around naked, we are required to cover our bodies. How are we suppose to tell the difference between men and women for the purpose of finding mates? Establish rules (social constructs) about how men and women should dress and present themselves. Pronouns refer to one's sex, not gender (whatever that is if it isn't the same as sex).

[Immanuel Can]

This means that a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man...What do you all think?

It's what we know. And what we know is that this isn't true. Sorry.

Firstly, the statement "a transwoman is a woman" cannot even be made coherent. What is a "woman," in this sentence? It has no meaning we can fix; but if it has no meaning we can fix, then we cannot understand what it is asking us to think a "transwoman" is.

Worse still, if there's such a thing as a "transwoman," it marks it as something different than a "woman." If it only means "woman," then the claim is tautological, like "A cat is a cat." But that claim fails to communicate anything about the cat. But if "transwoman" means something different from "woman," then the statement is manifestly false: a "transwoman" is one thing, and an "authentic woman" is another, because the addition of the suffix "trans" has to mean something.

The upshot is, we have to ask in which way the speaker wants to be wrong...because he's wrong either way.

Secondly, biological realities do not change. There is absolutely nothing a person born XY can do to become XX. There is nothing a sperm-producer can do to become an egg-producer.

The "intersex" cases only prove this further: to be "intersex" is to be "inter" two different things, which are the normal states of human biology. If there is no such thing as normal human biology, neither is there any such thing as "intersex." There is only blank asexuality. And if there is only blank asexuality, then there is no such thing as a "man" or a "woman," and nobody can possibly need to be either one of them: one simply is whatever one is.

And then comes the question of what to do about people who are confused about the facts. Should we indulge them in their mental illness, or help them escape it? The answer today seems largely to be, "Let's drive them deeper into their delusions, so we don't have to invest any time in helping them, and so that we can sponsor a massively lucrative 'sex-change' infrastructure that will mangle children for pay." This is not the option any good person would ever back.

The whole transgenderism thing is a colossal and absurd travesty. It's foisting upon mentally-ill, body-dysmorphic individuals a "normalizing" that cannot even be rationalized on any terms. It's the promotion of mental illness as an alternative to its compassionate treatment and healing. It's the castration of boys and the sterilization of girls. It's the farthest point of deluded Leftism.

You asked. Now you know.

[LuckyR]

Hi Everyone

I wish to express my views about transgenderism here and I would be very grateful if any of you could let me know what you think.

I would like to start by talking about differences between the brains of females and males.

I believe that at birth, there are no differences between the brains of females and males with regards to their average potential to be able to do mathematics and science and to think logically.

I believe that any differences like the differences mentioned above between the brains of adult females and males are 100% due to how our sexist society treats and nurtures girls and boys. I don't believe that chromosomes have anything to do with these differences.

As an aside, I will add here that I actually believe that most people, regardless of gender, are not brilliant at thinking logically so if a man hears a woman saying something that he thinks is illogical and he thinks to himself "typical woman!" then not only is he being sexist, he is also being a hypocrite.

So, does this mean that I don't believe that there are any innate (at birth) differences between the brains of females and males whatsoever? No it does not. I believe that the innate differences between the brains of females and males are basically artistic and creative in nature and are to do with how they like to express themselves. I believe that these differences determine the sort of colours, shapes and designs that women and men prefer to create and enjoy. This obviously extends to the sort of clothing women and men like to wear.

I therefore do believe that there are such things as female brains and male brains but they do not, on average, differ in innate intelligence.

I would now like to talk about intersexuality. Most people will probably think of confused genitalia when they hear the word intersex. However, I think that the broadest definition of intersexuality is when any part of a persons body does not match the gender of other parts of their body. I therefore believe that transgenderism (where the brain is a different gender to the rest of the body) is a form of intersexuality.

A lot of transphobic people believe that it is impossible for a person whose body is one gender to have a brain of the opposite gender to their body. I believe that given that we know that other forms of intersexuality do indeed happen then it is illogical to believe that brain/body intersexuality is impossible.

I think that a lot of people will agree with me that a "person" is basically their brain. This means that a female brain is a female person and a male brain is a male person.

This means that a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man.

Finaly, I believe that a nonbinary person has an intersex brain. However, this does not necessarily mean that all intersex brains are nonbinary. There are lots of different ways in which a brain can be intersex.

What do you all think?

I think your views are reasonable and logical. I would amend them slightly and add an important recent caveat.

The amendments would be:

There are hormonal (but non chromosomal) brain effects.

There is much larger intra gender behavioral variability than that between gender averages.

The caveat is that these brain/body issues have always existed and depending on social and medical realities have been addressed by individuals in various ways. However it bears highlighting the current reality that the "trendiness" of this topic in general plus the pressure of social media has resulted in a number of adolescents mistaking certain normal cis gender feelings as evidence of being trans. And that small numbers of individuals exposed to hormones and surgery at young ages have severe regret when these issues get sorted out at a later time.

[Harbal]

I think that a lot of people will agree with me that a "person" is basically their brain. This means that a female brain is a female person and a male brain is a male person.

I think our physical body is a significant part of our identity.

This means that a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man.

Why doesn't it mean that they are part man and part woman, or part male and part female? That seems like a more accurate description to me.

[Trajk Logik]

This means that a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man...What do you all think?

It's what we know. And what we know is that this isn't true. Sorry.

Excellent post.

I think that a lot of people will agree with me that a "person" is basically their brain. This means that a female brain is a female person and a male brain is a male person.

I think our physical body is a significant part of our identity.

Exactly. If a person was only their brain then why are transgenders not satisfied with simply living with that instead of trying to change their body too? We don't see doctors performing brain surgery when performing gender transitions. If identity is only in the brain then gender transition surgery would be completely unnecessary.

There are hormonal (but non chromosomal) brain effects.

Which is to say that the brain and body are not separate. One depends on the other and is affected by changes in the other. So the OP is wrong is trying to assert that identity is only in the brain.

There is much larger intra gender behavioral variability than that between gender averages.

Which is to say that the varying characteristics of certain genders have nothing to do with being a certain gender. If these variations overlap the boundary of the sexes then these variations are not gender specific. If both males and females are capable of caring for the young then caring for the young is not a defining characteristic of some gender. It is merely the defining characteristic of being a good parent.

The caveat is that these brain/body issues have always existed and depending on social and medical realities have been addressed by individuals in various ways. However it bears highlighting the current reality that the "trendiness" of this topic in general plus the pressure of social media has resulted in a number of adolescents mistaking certain normal cis gender feelings as evidence of being trans. And that small numbers of individuals exposed to hormones and surgery at young ages have severe regret when these issues get sorted out at a later time.

Yes. Behaviors that both sexes are capable of are not sexual, or gender-specific behaviors. Humans change their behaviors and can adopt different roles in different situations. That does not mean that they are a woman one instant and a man in another. They are simply human and humans are known for their flexibility and adaptability. The distinctions between the sexes are not flexible, or on a spectrum. The distinctions between males and females is very narrow in scope. There are only a few characteristics that distinguish males from females and do not overlap.

Biological sex is based on a combination of just a few traits:

- chromosomes (in humans, XY is male, XX female)
- genitals (penis vs. vagina)
- gonads (testes vs. ovaries)
- hormones (males have higher relative levels of testosterone than women, while women have higher levels of estrogen)
- secondary sex characteristics that aren’t connected with the reproductive system but distinguish the sexes, and usually appear at puberty (breasts, facial hair, size of larynx, subcutaneous fat, etc.)

Using genitals and gonads alone, more than 99.9% of people fall into two non-overlapping classes—male and female—and the other traits almost always occur with these. If you did a principal components analysis using the combination of all five traits, you’d find two widely separated clusters with very few people in between. Those clusters are biological realities, just as horses and donkeys are biological realities, even though they can produce hybrids (sterile mules) that fall morphologically in between.

As Immanuel Can has already pointed out intersex people simply re-enforce this idea that gender is binary. They possess the same sexual traits as men and women, not a completely different set of sexual organs that allow them to procreate with men and/or women. Most of them are are infertile. All intersex people have more of one set of characteristics than the other thereby leaning in one direction or another.

[Immanuel Can]

As Immanuel Can has already pointed out intersex people simply re-enforce this idea that gender is binary. They possess the same sexual traits as men and women, not a completely different set of sexual organs that allow them to procreate with men and/or women. Most of them are are infertile. All intersex people have more of one set of characteristics than the other thereby leaning in one direction or another.

Right. There's no doubt, even in the language of trans-propaganda, that sex is binary (gender, I suggest, is for verbs, not human beings).

In trans-propaganda, there are two things labelled -- one's birth-sex and one's target-sex. (For example, there's "I was born biologically male, but I need to be female." Male is, in this case, the birth-sex, and female the target-sex.)

Transers want us to believe that birth-sex is not a thing, but target-sex is a real thing. They want us to believe "I was born biologically male, but I don't have to stay male; I'm 'really' female, and thus the world owes it to treat me as female, and help me become female."

But if birth-sex is not a real and binding thing, then why does the transer "need" to leave it? And if the target-sex IS a thing, how can he 'become' it?

You see, even the language they use to make their case is full of the assumption of the fact of biological sex, normal two-sex thinking, and irrational denials of both, at the same time.

[Harbal]

As Immanuel Can has already pointed out intersex people simply re-enforce this idea that gender is binary. They possess the same sexual traits as men and women, not a completely different set of sexual organs that allow them to procreate with men and/or women. Most of them are are infertile. All intersex people have more of one set of characteristics than the other thereby leaning in one direction or another.

Right. There's no doubt, even in the language of trans-propaganda, that sex is binary (gender, I suggest, is for verbs, not human beings).

In trans-propaganda, there are two things labelled -- one's birth-sex and one's target-sex. (For example, there's "I was born biologically male, but I need to be female." Male is, in this case, the birth-sex, and female the target-sex.)

Transers want us to believe that birth-sex is not a thing, but target-sex is a real thing. They want us to believe "I was born biologically male, but I don't have to stay male; I'm 'really' female, and thus the world owes it to treat me as female, and help me become female."

But if birth-sex is not a real and binding thing, then why does the transer "need" to leave it? And if the target-sex IS a thing, how can he 'become' it?

You see, even the language they use to make their case is full of the assumption of the fact of biological sex, normal two-sex thinking, and irrational denials of both, at the same time.

Throw out all the nonsense, by all means, but there will still be an issue lying under where the pile of rubbish used to be. I don't know much about this subject, but I do know there is a recognised condition called gender dysphoria, and that living with it must be a miserable experience.

[Trajk Logik]

As Immanuel Can has already pointed out intersex people simply re-enforce this idea that gender is binary. They possess the same sexual traits as men and women, not a completely different set of sexual organs that allow them to procreate with men and/or women. Most of them are are infertile. All intersex people have more of one set of characteristics than the other thereby leaning in one direction or another.

Right. There's no doubt, even in the language of trans-propaganda, that sex is binary (gender, I suggest, is for verbs, not human beings).

In trans-propaganda, there are two things labelled -- one's birth-sex and one's target-sex. (For example, there's "I was born biologically male, but I need to be female." Male is, in this case, the birth-sex, and female the target-sex.)

Transers want us to believe that birth-sex is not a thing, but target-sex is a real thing. They want us to believe "I was born biologically male, but I don't have to stay male; I'm 'really' female, and thus the world owes it to treat me as female, and help me become female."

But if birth-sex is not a real and binding thing, then why does the transer "need" to leave it? And if the target-sex IS a thing, how can he 'become' it?

You see, even the language they use to make their case is full of the assumption of the fact of biological sex, normal two-sex thinking, and irrational denials of both, at the same time.

Exactly. What is it they are transitioning from? It's all lingual gymnastics to me.

Throw out all the nonsense, by all means, but there will still be an issue lying under where the pile of rubbish used to be. I don't know much about this subject, but I do know there is a recognised condition called gender dysphoria, and that living with it must be a miserable experience.

There are many reasons why someone claims to be something they are not, seeking attention and valid mental issues are the primary causes for transgenderism. Just as we don't affirm an anorexic's warped view of their body by prescribing them diet pills we should not be affirming transgenders' warped view of their bodies by playing to their delusions and cutting off body parts.

[Immanuel Can]

As Immanuel Can has already pointed out intersex people simply re-enforce this idea that gender is binary. They possess the same sexual traits as men and women, not a completely different set of sexual organs that allow them to procreate with men and/or women. Most of them are are infertile. All intersex people have more of one set of characteristics than the other thereby leaning in one direction or another.

Right. There's no doubt, even in the language of trans-propaganda, that sex is binary (gender, I suggest, is for verbs, not human beings).

In trans-propaganda, there are two things labelled -- one's birth-sex and one's target-sex. (For example, there's "I was born biologically male, but I need to be female." Male is, in this case, the birth-sex, and female the target-sex.)

Transers want us to believe that birth-sex is not a thing, but target-sex is a real thing. They want us to believe "I was born biologically male, but I don't have to stay male; I'm 'really' female, and thus the world owes it to treat me as female, and help me become female."

But if birth-sex is not a real and binding thing, then why does the transer "need" to leave it? And if the target-sex IS a thing, how can he 'become' it?

You see, even the language they use to make their case is full of the assumption of the fact of biological sex, normal two-sex thinking, and irrational denials of both, at the same time.

Throw out all the nonsense, by all means, but there will still be an issue lying under where the pile of rubbish used to be. I don't know much about this subject, but I do know there is a recognised condition called gender dysphoria, and that living with it must be a miserable experience.

Absolutely. But the key question is this: when somebody is mentally ill, miserable and dysphoric, what should one do? And my answer would be, "By all means, give them the best treatment we can, to help them come to grips with reality." The answer from the trans set is, "Poison them, sterilize them, cut their genitals off, and drive them as deeply as you can into their delusion."

Which one seems to be the compassionate answer?

[Harbal]

Throw out all the nonsense, by all means, but there will still be an issue lying under where the pile of rubbish used to be. I don't know much about this subject, but I do know there is a recognised condition called gender dysphoria, and that living with it must be a miserable experience.

There are many reasons why someone claims to be something they are not, seeking attention and valid mental issues are the primary causes for transgenderism. Just as we don't affirm an anorexic's warped view of their body by prescribing them diet pills we should not be affirming transgenders' warped view of their bodies by playing to their delusions and cutting off body parts.

I think what we should be doing is letting those qualified to deal with the issue decide what is appropriate, and you are obviously not one of those.

[Harbal]

Right. There's no doubt, even in the language of trans-propaganda, that sex is binary (gender, I suggest, is for verbs, not human beings).

In trans-propaganda, there are two things labelled -- one's birth-sex and one's target-sex. (For example, there's "I was born biologically male, but I need to be female." Male is, in this case, the birth-sex, and female the target-sex.)

Transers want us to believe that birth-sex is not a thing, but target-sex is a real thing. They want us to believe "I was born biologically male, but I don't have to stay male; I'm 'really' female, and thus the world owes it to treat me as female, and help me become female."

But if birth-sex is not a real and binding thing, then why does the transer "need" to leave it? And if the target-sex IS a thing, how can he 'become' it?

You see, even the language they use to make their case is full of the assumption of the fact of biological sex, normal two-sex thinking, and irrational denials of both, at the same time.

Throw out all the nonsense, by all means, but there will still be an issue lying under where the pile of rubbish used to be. I don't know much about this subject, but I do know there is a recognised condition called gender dysphoria, and that living with it must be a miserable experience.

Absolutely. But the key question is this: when somebody is mentally ill, miserable and dysphoric, what should one do? And my answer would be, "By all means, give them the best treatment we can, to help them come to grips with reality." The answer from the trans set is, "Poison them, sterilize them, cut their genitals off, and drive them as deeply as you can into their delusion."

Which one seems to be the compassionate answer?

A bunch of unqualified know-it-alls on an internet forum deciding their fate will not, in my opinion, result in a compassionate outcome.

[seeds]

I would like to start by talking about differences between the brains of females and males....

...I think that a lot of people will agree with me that a "person" is basically their brain. This means that a female brain is a female person and a male brain is a male person.

I strongly disagree.

A person is not their brain.

A person is the inner-soul (the "I Am-ness") that emerges (is awakened into existence) from a highly ordered arrangement of matter that we call a brain.

This means that a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man.

No.

Both are simply confused and hapless victims of the low level of consciousness that humans must function at in order for this temporary illusion we call a universe to seem logical to us.

The soul is completely genderless.

Therefore, because the genderless soul momentarily (until physical death) finds itself inhabiting a material body that is equipped with either male or female reproductive attributes, confusion ensues.

Humans need to realize that we are not our bodies and thus rise above these temporary gender issues.
_______

[Harbal]

The soul is completely genderless.
_______

How many souls have you tested for gender?

[Trajk Logik]

Throw out all the nonsense, by all means, but there will still be an issue lying under where the pile of rubbish used to be. I don't know much about this subject, but I do know there is a recognised condition called gender dysphoria, and that living with it must be a miserable experience.

There are many reasons why someone claims to be something they are not, seeking attention and valid mental issues are the primary causes for transgenderism. Just as we don't affirm an anorexic's warped view of their body by prescribing them diet pills we should not be affirming transgenders' warped view of their bodies by playing to their delusions and cutting off body parts.

I think what we should be doing is letting those qualified to deal with the issue decide what is appropriate, and you are obviously not one of those.

Isn't that what I was pointing to - those qualified to deal with issue of anorexia do not affirm their patients' delusions? We're talking about distorted views of one's body whether it be their weight or their sexual identity. Why would we have different treatments for the same type of disease unless one group was made out to be victims by one side of the political spectrum and deserve special treatment.

Personally, I couldn't care less what kind of treatment they receive as long as it doesn't include trampling on my right to free speech and thought.