just another tale of morals/ethics....

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Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

just another tale of morals/ethics....

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

it is very late and I can't sleep... so, I have been doing some reading
on some Buddhist writers...their connection to Buddhism and ethics/morals.....

and while reading, I made some connections of my own in regard to morals/
ethics....and why we should engage in being moral and what being moral/ethical
actually means...

the idea revolves around the very well-known idea that human beings are
social creatures... we cannot exist in isolation and apart from other
human beings...the only way, the ONLY WAY, we can become human is
by our interactions with others.. if the journey, as Nietzsche suggested,
is to go from animal, we did begin as monkeys, to becoming animal/human,
we still have a large part of being animal within us, our use of instincts,
that is animal... and the biological needs of food, water, shelter, that is
our animal nature.... and also to procreate and love and to feel the need
of others... that too, that too is animal instincts within us....
or to state it another way, if we have no choose in our actions or
behavior, that is animal... choice is being human... if we choose to
behave differently than our instincts, then we are being human...
if we are insulted or if we are wronged in some fashion, our instincts
tell us that we must strike back and insult them, wrong them in some
fashion... but if we turn the other cheek, if we forgive, that is choice..
and thus being more human....which is the real point of Jesus sayings...
to move us from being animal to becoming human... which is to say,
to move from instinct, having no choice, to becoming human, which
is to say, we choose our behavior, our actions...it is no longer done
on instinct...or within mindless reaction.... we mindfully and willfully
act with intend and purpose.... that is being human....not animal....

and thus, we reach the point of how do we understand morals and ethics?

I become human within my actions and interactions with other human beings..
that is the nature of being... all animals learn to be, by being with others
like them... a lion cub learns to be a lion cub by being with other lions..
that is the nature of how we become who we are... if we hang out with
dogs or cats, we cannot become human because dogs and cats must become
who they are.. which is dogs and cats.... they can't be anything else...
and to learn to become human, we must engage with other humans...
and the lessons we learn about being human, we learn from other humans...
and to teach children, for that is who, mostly learns, the children learn
how to become human by watching other human beings.... that is the nature of
being....and becoming..... we learn from others... on how we are to act
and be and become..... we cannot learn to become human any other way...

in our actions and reactions to children, we quite often just react..
with no thought as to what our actions mean.....I am a parent,
I was not a very good parent because I didn't think enough about
what my reactions were to my daughter.. I wasn't very mindful of
what my words or actions showed her how to become human...
if we are mean or cruel to our children, that is all they learn as
to what it means to be human..... if we are kind to our children,
that is the lesson they learn as to what it means to be human...
we are teaching them to become human... and what lessons
are we teaching them?

but recall, that we are social beings... we must exist within a state/society..
that is basic to becoming human.... we find what is our nature within 
our actions and interactions with other human beings...
but we are taught those actions and interactions by our family, our parents,
the church, the state, the media....

and so, we learn from the give and take between us individually and
us collectively... we are taught what it means to be human...
we are taught how to be kind or mean or cruel or helpful...
those are lessons we learn as children... our education is basically
to teach us on how to become human beings... that is education.....

and within a society/state, we can only succeed if the state/society succeeds.
if the state/society fails, we fail too... so, it is in our best interest to see
to it that our state/society succeeds... the more successful and prosperous
our society/state is, the more successful and prosperous we are... a rising
tide floats all ships...

and the question becomes, how do we help create a successful society/state?

the question becomes, how do we individually help create a better, stronger
society/state? By being better citizens... if we promote the good within a
society/state, isn't that helping create a better society/ a better state?
if we hurt someone, or damage someone, how does that violence, and it is
violence, help create better people, which in turn help us create a
better society/state.....let us say, I torture my children.. and torture
is not just physical, but it is mental... and I tortured my children..
how is that a benefit to a society? it isn't... to harm children, is to
harm the state, the society... if we harm others by stealing or
murdering or committing crimes against the society/state,
how does that benefit the state/society? it doesn't...
to damage others by our actions of stealing or lying or murder,
isn't benefiting the state or our society..... and we must have
a strong state/society for us to benefit... we cannot benefit
from a weak state/society.... our success cannot come from a weak
state/society... we cannot learn to become successful human beings,
from a weak or damaged state/society... every single action we take,
either benefits the state/society or it damages it...every single action...

if I harm another, I am, on purpose, damaging, harming the state/society,
that I need to succeed in...

we are dependent on the state/society to become who we are, human beings,
and if we damage the state/society, we hurt our own chances of becoming
better human beings... we need the state/society and the state/society
needs us... it is a mutual beneficial give and take between the individual
and the state/society... but that includes the state/society role too..
for example, if the state/society damages human beings within that
society/state, it damages itself... the only way we human beings can
survive and succeed is if the state/society succeeds and survives...
and the only way the state/society survives and succeeds if we
individually survive and succeeds... the one needs the other....
and if we harm other individually, we harm society collectively...

and so the basis of morals and ethics lies in the knowledge that
we are social beings that can only survive and become within
the state/society.. and the state/society can only survive and succeed
with our help individivally.....

to damage one, is to damage all and to damage all is to damage one...
if I promote the health and well being of others, I promote the health
and well being of myself...for we are, all of us, part of a state/society
and we can only succeed and survive if all of us succeed and survive...

So, to promote my own personal well being, I promote the well being of
others... I practice being kind to others.. for that is my path to
my becoming...others... individually and collectively...
I want others to survive and succeed, for that helps me survive
and succeed.. and one of the ways to make that happen is by
our collective work.. thus we do promote the welfare state,
and we do practice helping others and we are mindful of
what it means to be human... which is best achieved by
being kind and nice and helpful to others... for that helps
others to succeed.. to be mean or cruel to people only damages
them, which in turns damages our society/state at large....

ethics/morals properly done, is about us helping both the
large, the state/society at large, and helping other human beings
individually...to become better human beings is to help our state/society
at large...

Kropotkin
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12658
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: just another tale of morals/ethics....

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Since Buddhism is practiced widely with many schools and sub-schools, it is essential you list or provide the specific references so people understand the perspective contexts.

What is common within all schools of Buddhism is that Buddhism provide an iterative system-based generic tool i.e.

Buddhism's 4NT-8FP is a Life Problem Solving Technique.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25193
in various forms specific to each school,

as a master key to resolve [mitigate, modulate] all of life problems, thus including morality & ethics, optimally and effectively.
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