Yes there are two beliefs here in consideration, i.e.Magnus Anderson wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:56 am It depends on what he means by "mind-independent". If a mind-independent thing, as defined by him, is a thing that is not "an appearance in the eye of the beholder", which means, it is not someone's perception, then it follows that what he's saying is that only perceptions exist. As such, a T-rex toy does not really exist because a T-rex toy is not a perception -- it is a three-dimensional physical object. Instead, what exists is a belief that a T-rex toy exists and a belief that the toy is looking at us. Both beliefs are erroneous, of course, but they exist nonetheless.
1. a belief that a T-rex toy exists
2. a belief that the T-rex toy is looking at us
Here are my point;
Philosophical Realists believe the physical-T-rex toy [1] exists as absolutely mind-independent, i.e. it exists regardless of whether there are humans or not.
Philosophical Realists when informed understand [2] is an illusion, i.e. it is "dependent" on the mind of the observer.
What philosophical realists (PRs) are ignorant is actually "1.a belief that a T-rex toy exists" the SAME process as "2. the T-rex toy is looking at us is an illusion."
What the philosophical realists [mind-independence] is they failed to understand [where necessary & relevant]* the principles of the mind in 2 generating illusions is the same at that in their ordinary everyday experiences.
* mind-independent is not Absolute as insisted by PRs but rather relative to difference conditions.
As Ramachandran [famous neuroscientist] has I stated;
- “Indeed, the line between perceiving and hallucinating is not as crisp as we like to think. In a sense, when we look at the world, we are hallucinating all the time.
One could almost regard perception as the act of choosing the one hallucination that best fits the incoming data.”
― V.S. Ramachandran, The Tell-Tale Brain: A Neuroscientist's Quest for What Makes Us Human
What philosophical realists is banking on is the Law of Excluded Middle [black or white] and they do not realize [in one perspective] our perceptions of reality are on a continuum of hallucinating.
See the various thread I have raised on this issue;
Anil Seth: Is Reality a Controlled Hallucination?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34077
Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25316
Meta-Hallucination versus 'General' Hallucinations.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31536
Donald Hoffman: There is No Objective Reality
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31424
Is Reality an Illusion? Donald Hoffman
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39218
Discuss?? views??