Finitism made precise

[Magnus Anderson]

The number of unicorns is most definitely not zero.

There's at least one in your head.

Back to square one with you. Learn English language.

[Magnus Anderson]

Here's a square circle.

That's not a square circle.

[Skepdick]

Here's a square circle.

That's not a square circle.

Yes its. To your eyes it's a square, to Mathematics it's a circle by definition.

Learn to understand the meaning of words. If you reject the fact that what you are seeing is, in fact a square circle then you are necessarily misinterpreting what you are seeing.

Syntax is not semantics.

You literally don't even know what anything means.

[Skepdick]

Back to square one with you. Learn English language.

I am speaking English.

What is confusing you about the meaning of my words? Are you perhaps confusing the words with their meaning?

That's in your head, not on your screen. These are just meaningless symbols you are observing.

[Magnus Anderson]

Yes its. To your eyes it's a square, to Mathematics it's a circle by definition.

When people speak of square-circles, and especially when they assert that square-circles do not exist, they are speaking of Euclidean square-circles. This is a given and anyone who isn't overrun by desire to disprove others understands it. It's not that difficult after all. The usual "But there are square-circles in Taxicab geometry" nonsense is merely a word game and nothing more. You've been told multiple times in the past that you have a seriously disturbing tendency to play word games. You keep ignoring that.

[Skepdick]

Yes its. To your eyes it's a square, to Mathematics it's a circle by definition.

When people speak of square-circles, and especially when they assert that square-circles do not exist, they are speaking of Euclidean square-circles.

Why do you believe that to be true? The Universe is not an Euclidian geometry. It has more than 2 dimensions. Strictly speaking there aren't even such things as squares or circles. Cubes and spheres maybe...

So if you are talking about squares and circles then I figured you are talking about the abstract Mathematical multiverse. Same place where your unicorns live.

In your head.

This is a given and anyone who isn't overrun by their desire to disprove others understands it. It's not that difficult. The usual "But there are square-circles in Taxicab geometry" nonsense is merely a word game and nothing more. You've been already told that you have a tendency to play word games. You keep ignoring that.

I don't play word games, but if you drag me into one; and then I catch you trying to rig the game against me (say by trying to impose a geometry in which you are "right") - I don't play fair.

I win every language game you drag me into. I promise.

Game theory 101. Prisoner's dilemma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

[Magnus Anderson]

That's why noone wants to have a conversation with you.

[Skepdick]

That's why noone wants to have a conversation with you.

That's not true. Plenty of people want to have a conversation with me, just not on this forum. The people here are very ... different.

I think what you meant to say is that YOU don't want to have a conversation with me.

I know. You want to have an argument - you want to play a language gamme.

That's not a conversation.

[Magnus Anderson]

I can assure you that you'd be banned from any serious forum. You're completely deficient in good manners. You don't listen, you misinterpret and then you attack -- and then you accuse others of your own guilt in order to better hide what you're doing.

[Skepdick]

I can assure you that you'd be banned from any serious forum. You're completely deficient in good manners. You don't listen, you misinterpret and then you attack -- and then you accuse others of your own guilt in order to better hide what you're doing.

That doesn't sound like me...

I listen. I understand. And then I correct misconceptions.

You must be projecting.

[Gary Childress]

"Show me 0" is a meaningless statement, and thus, a meaningless request, one that cannot be fulfilled.

Nonsense. What comes before the number 1 in your head?

Consider yourself shown.

In fact, any statement of the form "Show me X" where X is a number is a meaningless statement, a request that cannot be fulfilled.

There are an infinite number of linguistic representations I can show you that refer to the number. You can find it in your own head...

Can you show me "1"? Or "2"? You can't. It's a request that makes no sense.

Of course, I can. 3-2, 4-3, 5-4, 6-5. If you evaluate the expression using the standard arithmetic you were taught at school - you get 1
6-4, 5-3, 8-6. If you evaluate the expression using the standard arithmetic you were taught at school - you get 2.

What you can ask instead is "Show me X Ys" where X is a number and Y is a physical object of some sort.

Ehhh, are you denying that by saying "think of the letter after B" I am not showing you a letter of the alphabet? Don't be silly!

I only have to show it to your perception, not to your senses.

It makes no sense to show you "1" but it makes sense to show you "1 horse". In fact, since "1 horse" is something that exists, I can show it to you.

So when I say 2+2 you aren't thinking of the number 4? So weird!

It makes no sense to show you "0" but it makes sense to show you "0 horses". However, since "0 horses" is the same as nothing, it's not something I can show you.

"0 horses" makes absolutely no sense to me.

-> 3 eggs
-> 2 eggs
- 1 egg
??? -> NO egg

However, the fact that I can't show you "0 horses" does not mean that "0" is a useful but self-contradictory idea.

Yes it does. In exactly the same way I showed you why talking about "nothing" results in contradictions. Nothing isn't anything.

But in Mathematics we have made it something because it's super useful.

Even though I can't show you "0 horses", I can show you places where there are exactly 0 horses.

That's the entire universe then.

Such places can be perfectly accurately represented with the help of the concept of zero.

Why would you even represent the entire universe with "0 horses"?

Take your pocket, for example. It can be perfectly accurately described with the statement "A place where there are exactly 0 horses". Note that the statement isn't saying "A place where nothingness exists". You have to be a serious literalist to misinterpret it that way.

For any location in the entire universe: I would be confused as to why you are claiming it has "0 horses".

You have to be a very weird person who talks funny and dreams of horses.

Furthermore, the universe itself has many numerical properties. The number of people living on Earth, for example, is 8 billion. On the other hand, the number of unicorns in the world, which is a numerical property of the universe, is exactly zero. Similarly, the number of elephants in your pocket is zero just as well.

The number of unicorns is most definitely not zero.

There's at least one in your head.

Let's hope real plants and animals are not only in our heads at some point. Otherwise, we'll have to eat our thoughts.

[Gary Childress]

SAVE REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Skepdick]

Let's hope real plants and animals are not only in our heads at some point. Otherwise, we'll have to eat our thoughts.

How about some soylent green?

[Gary Childress]

Let's hope real plants and animals are not only in our heads at some point. Otherwise, we'll have to eat our thoughts.

How about some soylent green?

I hated that movie. When I was a really small kid I saw it and I've never been able to get that scenario out of my head. They even showed us a doomsday movie in elementary school that I can remember. All my life, I've been too terrified to do more than the bare minimum. Then of course there was "Silence of the Lambs". Maybe Holywood will do us all a favor and self-destruct. Of course, they could try to do something different but it's too late for me now. I've already been horrified by the movies "Aliens", The Matrix and others I saw in my 20s ad 30s. They reinforced the picture set by all the Friday the 13th movies and other stuff that was out back then.

That's a problem. My brain doesn't act on any of those movies I only react to them as a defense mechanism.

[Gary Childress]

Holywood is a slum now. Unfortunately, it needs to stay that way. People need to move on.