Morality: P-Realists are 'Children'?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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seeds
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Re: Morality: P-Realists are 'Children'?

Post by seeds »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:30 am
seeds wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:03 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 2:43 pm I would have agreed, but Chatgpt was very adamant. I mean, I understand that it's knowledge is not perfect, but it would seem that some of it must be true, at least, give that it is culling from the best current knowledge just as it did in all the posts where you liked what it said. I'll ask it if it might have a bias against you and get back to you on the subject.
What do you mean in saying that: "...I would have agreed..." ?

Agreed with what? That bolded part of VA's reply? Nonsense!!!

First off, I too am no doubt guilty of much of what your excellent Chatgpt quote points out about the mental status of those who label other's philosophical positions as being childish. However, I nevertheless marveled and how amazingly accurate it was in evaluating VA's situation. It's as if it zeroed-in specifically on VA.

Either that, or little V is such a cut-and-dried textbook case, that it (Chatgpt) simply had to list the already established facts and they fit V like the proverbial glove.

And the fact that little V stated: "...I don't fit into any of the above categories..." was a real knee slapper. Especially seeing how it was immediately followed with him proving how he does indeed fit into category one ("Intellectual Arrogance") as he matter-of-factly (arrogantly) explained that, no, it's not arrogance - it's intellectual "competence".

Furthermore, did Chatgtp mention anything about a "Pathological Dishonesty" category? For we both have pointed out to him how he denies stating certain things that we then provide him with the very quote of that which he denies having said - of which he then simply refuses to even acknowledge the error he made - (must have something to do with that "Ego Protection" category that he "...doesn't fit into..." :wink:).

I sometimes feel a little guilty for picking on him so much, however, seeing how his ego is so huge that he needs a wheelbarrow to carry the overflow, I can't seem to resist whacking it with a stick from time to time. :D
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These ad homs are signs a very bruised psyche from the related arguments that you have run out of counters to my argument.
No, little V, I haven't run out of counters to your arguments, I have run out of patience when it comes to dealing with your inability to understand how the innumerable counters that I (and others) have already provided, have already destroyed your arguments.

In which case, what you call "ad homs," I, on the other hand, call last resort efforts to try to get through to you, because it has proven to be an exercise in futility to use reason and logic.

Indeed, reason and logic have no effect on you.

And lastly, how dare you be so hypocritical as to accuse others of using ad homs about you when the very title of this thread you created is an "...attention getter..." ad hom against philosophical realists - calling them "children" and proclaiming that their philosophical ideology is "childish."
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:30 am Why waste time so much on these off-topics ad homs,...
What's off-topic about my discussing with Iwannaplato the idiocy of you insisting that you don't fit into any of the categories listed in his Chatgpt quote when, in fact, you fit perfectly into all of them?

Seriously, V, your lack of self-awareness is astonishing.

Now, granted, what I discussed with Iwannaplato might not have anything to do with your ad hom insulting of p-realists, but if you wouldn't have made such an absurd statement about not "fitting in" with any of the Chatgpt categories, then I would not have felt compelled to counter it. So, it's your fault for spontaneously generating a new topic within the existing one.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:30 am ...just give your counter arguments to what you do not agree with my arguments.
How many times do I have to repost the following before it finally penetrates that thick skull of yours?...
seeds wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:47 pm In that same post, in a rare moment of candid honesty and self-reflection, you went on to say...
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:56 am I am not perfect so there is still room for improvements.
Yes, little V, there is still room for improvements.

And by "improvements," it doesn't mean finding new and better ways of pretending that your egregious errors in logic don't exist, or by wearing down your opponents by repetitiously insisting that they show you how and where your arguments are flawed when they have already done so dozens of times in prior encounters with you.
Again, reasonable and logical counter arguments have no effect on you, for you either don't understand them, or you simply ignore them. Therefore, what's left for us to use other than ad homs?
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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Morality: P-Realists are 'Children'?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

seeds wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 5:12 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:30 am
seeds wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:03 pm What do you mean in saying that: "...I would have agreed..." ?

Agreed with what? That bolded part of VA's reply? Nonsense!!!

First off, I too am no doubt guilty of much of what your excellent Chatgpt quote points out about the mental status of those who label other's philosophical positions as being childish. However, I nevertheless marveled and how amazingly accurate it was in evaluating VA's situation. It's as if it zeroed-in specifically on VA.

Either that, or little V is such a cut-and-dried textbook case, that it (Chatgpt) simply had to list the already established facts and they fit V like the proverbial glove.

And the fact that little V stated: "...I don't fit into any of the above categories..." was a real knee slapper. Especially seeing how it was immediately followed with him proving how he does indeed fit into category one ("Intellectual Arrogance") as he matter-of-factly (arrogantly) explained that, no, it's not arrogance - it's intellectual "competence".

Furthermore, did Chatgtp mention anything about a "Pathological Dishonesty" category? For we both have pointed out to him how he denies stating certain things that we then provide him with the very quote of that which he denies having said - of which he then simply refuses to even acknowledge the error he made - (must have something to do with that "Ego Protection" category that he "...doesn't fit into..." :wink:).

I sometimes feel a little guilty for picking on him so much, however, seeing how his ego is so huge that he needs a wheelbarrow to carry the overflow, I can't seem to resist whacking it with a stick from time to time. :D
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These ad homs are signs a very bruised psyche from the related arguments that you have run out of counters to my argument.
No, little V, I haven't run out of counters to your arguments, I have run out of patience when it comes to dealing with your inability to understand how the innumerable counters that I (and others) have already provided, have already destroyed your arguments.

In which case, what you call "ad homs," I, on the other hand, call last resort efforts to try to get through to you, because it has proven to be an exercise in futility to use reason and logic.

Indeed, reason and logic have no effect on you.

And lastly, how dare you be so hypocritical as to accuse others of using ad homs about you when the very title of this thread you created is an "...attention getter..." ad hom against philosophical realists - calling them "children" and proclaiming that their philosophical ideology is "childish."
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:30 am Why waste time so much on these off-topics ad homs,...
What's off-topic about my discussing with Iwannaplato the idiocy of you insisting that you don't fit into any of the categories listed in his Chatgpt quote when, in fact, you fit perfectly into all of them?

Seriously, V, your lack of self-awareness is astonishing.

Now, granted, what I discussed with Iwannaplato might not have anything to do with your ad hom insulting of p-realists, but if you wouldn't have made such an absurd statement about not "fitting in" with any of the Chatgpt categories, then I would not have felt compelled to counter it. So, it's your fault for spontaneously generating a new topic within the existing one.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:30 am ...just give your counter arguments to what you do not agree with my arguments.
How many times do I have to repost the following before it finally penetrates that thick skull of yours?...
seeds wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:47 pm In that same post, in a rare moment of candid honesty and self-reflection, you went on to say...
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:56 am I am not perfect so there is still room for improvements.
Yes, little V, there is still room for improvements.

And by "improvements," it doesn't mean finding new and better ways of pretending that your egregious errors in logic don't exist, or by wearing down your opponents by repetitiously insisting that they show you how and where your arguments are flawed when they have already done so dozens of times in prior encounters with you.
Again, reasonable and logical counter arguments have no effect on you, for you either don't understand them, or you simply ignore them. Therefore, what's left for us to use other than ad homs?
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You are new to the ChatGPT game?
It is very stupid of you to be "too carried away" and to rely on ChatGPT as an authority.

Whenever I quoted ChatGpt it is always qualified "with reservations.'
Whatever is from ChatGpt cannot be taken as an 'authority' nor credible.
ChatGPT like [better than] WIKI is merely report and give a clue as to what is "out there" in the public database.
If you want to assert it as a solid claim, then you have to provide "your" arguments and references from reliable sources.

Note the God Delusion by Dawkins.
I do not agree with Dawkins totally, however I totally agree the belief in a God is delusional.

Whatever arguments you have tried to counter my argument, I have refuted them.

Don't give me the childish and silly 'I and others' have argued against your argument.
This is why I raised this thread;
Objections to "It is Impossible for God to be Real"
viewtopic.php?t=40618&start=15

If you think your argument is SO sound, you should be more persistent in getting your argument across in the above thread or if you are not a coward, preferably open a separate thread to emphasize the soundness of your argument.

Your experience of a God is so familiar with what is reported by those with mental issues it is not likely your experience of God is that exceptional.
In any case, justify your claims against my argument.
seeds
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Re: Morality: P-Realists are 'Children'?

Post by seeds »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:14 am You are new to the ChatGPT game?
It is very stupid of you to be "too carried away" and to rely on ChatGPT as an authority.
It wouldn't matter one iota if, say, Chatgpt's ancient ancestor (the first Commodore computer) had provided the list of categories posted by Iwannaplato, it still would have been an accurate assessment of your mental status.

Furthermore,...

(and this isn't the first time you've done this)

...your brazen hypocrisy is on full display when you created this new post to Iwannaplato - viewtopic.php?p=665553#p665553 - where you relied on Wikipedia to support a portion of your argument...

...yet, in a post to me - a mere 39 minutes earlier - you criticized me (called me "stupid") for referencing the list that Iwannaplato gathered from Chatgpt because, like Wiki,...

(again, of which you constantly use to support your arguments)

...it (Chatgpt) isn't a "reliable" or "authoritative" source of information.

While that might be true, nevertheless, again, your brazen hypocrisy, coupled with your lack of self-awareness, is on full display here.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:14 am Note the God Delusion by Dawkins.
I do not agree with Dawkins totally, however I totally agree the belief in a God is delusional.
I'm not surprised that you would use Richard Dawkins as a reference.

Would this be a bad time to point out to you that Dawkins is the metaphorical equivalent of an "amoeba" who somehow has a decent perception of the physiology of the petri dish he is swimming around in, but hasn't the slightest clue as to how the petri dish (the "world") came into existence?

Due to being locked-in to a specific level of consciousness (a specific "rung") on the "ascending ladder of consciousness" depicted below,...

Image

...Dawkins (like you and most other humans) has proven himself to be incapable of entertaining the possibility of the existence of higher rungs extending above the human rung, let alone the ontological status of those higher rungs.

I mean, the sheer foolishness of thinking that humans, within the context of the tiny wisp of time that this universe has existed,...

(compared to the eternity that preceded it)

...represent the pinnacle (or apex) of the evolution of mind and consciousness, is laughable.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:14 am Whatever arguments you have tried to counter my argument, I have refuted them.
No you haven't, little V.

Again, you either don't understand how my arguments have refuted your arguments, or you've simply ignored my arguments, especially this one...
If the entire enterprise of the present state of humanity’s take on theism was to be proven false, it still would not be evidence (or proof) of the impossibility of God’s existence.
Indeed, even Peter Holmes pointed the same thing out to you in the bolded part of this recent post...
Peter Holmes wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:24 am Gods either do or don't exist - and you and I reject the claim that they exist. But whether they do or don't exist has nothing to do with what you or I or anyone believes. And that's realism in a nutshell. With regard to gods, you're firmly in the realist camp.
No matter how much you grumble and moan about what we are saying, it is literally impossible for you to "successfully" refute the veracity of that particular assertion made by both me and Peter Holmes.

Now I realize that your limited level of consciousness severely inhibits your ability to process the following ideas, and you will no doubt accuse me of residing in "la la land",...

...however, I suggest that the first thing we need to do is to stop using the baggage-laden words - "God" or "gods" - as a descriptor for the higher (transcendent) lifeforms who may simply be the product of a "natural evolution" of mind and consciousness in the context of the infinite depths of eternity that preceded the emergence of this one measly little universe,...

...which, itself, may simply be the autonomous (self-created) mental domain of only ONE of a probable infinity of conscious "Agents" who have made it to the heights of what mind and consciousness are capable of reaching if given enough time.

Indeed, even YOU, little V, are in possession of the same amazing and infinite potential that the Creator of this universe holds.
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Iwannaplato
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Re: Morality: P-Realists are 'Children'?

Post by Iwannaplato »

seeds wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 6:53 pm ...your brazen hypocrisy is on full display when you created this new post to Iwannaplato - viewtopic.php?p=665553#p665553 - where you relied on Wikipedia to support a portion of your argument...
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And just to be clear, VA started the use of Chatgpt. Then after he got flak for using it from me and Flannel amongst others he started putting a mild disclaimer after his use.

As part of my criticism of his use of Chatgpt I asked Chatgpt what it thought of someone using Chatgpt in philosophical discussions and the AI had some negative things to say about that.

Of course I was being tongue in cheek using Chatgpt, but he's being disingenous looking down on its use. Or short-memoried.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Morality: P-Realists are 'Children'?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:51 pm
seeds wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 6:53 pm ...your brazen hypocrisy is on full display when you created this new post to Iwannaplato - viewtopic.php?p=665553#p665553 - where you relied on Wikipedia to support a portion of your argument...
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And just to be clear, VA started the use of Chatgpt. Then after he got flak for using it from me and Flannel amongst others he started putting a mild disclaimer after his use.

As part of my criticism of his use of Chatgpt I asked Chatgpt what it thought of someone using Chatgpt in philosophical discussions and the AI had some negative things to say about that.

Of course I was being tongue in cheek using Chatgpt, but he's being disingenous looking down on its use. Or short-memoried.
Bullshit.
Show me evidence where I added 'with reservations' after 'flaks' from you and Flannel Jesus.

I was very aware of the limitations of ChatGpt and so I added the qualification 'with reservations' without any prompt from anyone.
  • Here is ChatGPT's view:
    [note this is not authoritative but give a general view based on a survey of whatever info is available in the internet];
    viewtopic.php?p=650840#p650840
I am always conscious of the limitations of knowledge from certain sources, so i used the term 'with reservation' where necessary;
  • viewtopic.php?p=608574#p608574
    Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:22 am
    ... least I am aware of the basic knowledge to make reasonable hypotheses [with reservations] that are rational. Here is what the majority are lacking in basic knowledge re ...
seeds
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Re: Morality: P-Realists are 'Children'?

Post by seeds »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:51 pm
seeds wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 6:53 pm ...your brazen hypocrisy is on full display when you created this new post to Iwannaplato - viewtopic.php?p=665553#p665553 - where you relied on Wikipedia to support a portion of your argument...
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And just to be clear, VA started the use of Chatgpt. Then after he got flak for using it from me and Flannel amongst others he started putting a mild disclaimer after his use.
Clearly, Wikipedia and Chatgpt are kind of a "CliffsNotes" source of information that provide quick and fairly accurate...

(or as L̶o̶n̶ Dick Chaney once quipped "...close enough for government work...")

...summaries of pretty much anything us bozos might want to use to bolster our arguments.
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:51 pm As part of my criticism of his use of Chatgpt I asked Chatgpt what it thought of someone using Chatgpt in philosophical discussions and the AI had some negative things to say about that.
Well, if I am properly interpreting what you mean - that Chatgpt is cautioning us to be wary of the accuracy of the information it provides,...

...then not only are these new AI's giving us near instant access to vast stores of human knowledge, but they seem to have been programmed to at least "mimic" wisdom.

Now whether that's good or bad is another issue, for I can see it as being a ploy that uses a seemingly sentient form of self-deprecation in order to engender trust.
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:51 pm Of course I was being tongue in cheek using Chatgpt, but he's being disingenous looking down on its use. Or short-memoried.
VA is a precocious little boy in adult clothes.

He reminds me of the main character in the TV series "Young Sheldon" who tries to overwhelm his opponents with superficial facts and figures but lacks the wisdom that comes with age and experience.

I also noticed that he completely ignored my last post to him where I provided him with my irrefutable refutation of his lame assertion regarding the impossibility of God's existence.

Sometime in the future, he will of course demand that I show him when and where I refuted his argument about the impossibility of God, and when I do (for the umpteenth time), he will once again ignore it.

Apparently, we're on some kind of :twisted: fiendish :twisted: merry-go-round where he keeps repeating the same philosophical errors and I am dumb enough to keep responding to them. :shock:
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Iwannaplato
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Re: Morality: P-Realists are 'Children'?

Post by Iwannaplato »

seeds wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 4:07 pm Well, if I am properly interpreting what you mean - that Chatgpt is cautioning us to be wary of the accuracy of the information it provides,...
Actually it went beyond that. It was critical of a human using the AI rather than getting the training him or herself. It did 'express' concerns that the kind of interpretation involved in philosophy was out of its scope or something like that, but it seemed to be aware of social and learning disadvantages of using the AI instead of working out the arguments oneself.
Apparently, we're on some kind of :twisted: fiendish :twisted: merry-go-round where he keeps repeating the same philosophical errors and I am dumb enough to keep responding to them. :shock:
There are a few people here where I find it better to speak about their arguments just to other people and not to them. This can be a kind of power move and I've seen it used in ways I don't respect, including myself. But I think if one's main point is to further the discussion, I don't have a problem with it.

Oops. I don't meet my own criteria here.
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